Scammed

[roylie82]

Let's see how quickly this post gets yanked.

Sold a very high price item in June. Delivery confirmation showed it was delivered AND signed for at the correct address. Buyer states he never got it, demands a personal refund. I contact ebay to ask what to do? They said sit tight, he has to file a claim through ebay, don't refund him. So I did as asked--stupid I know. Next thing I know he filed a claim with paypal. Again I called ebay and let them know. They stated they work closely with Paypal, again don't worry about it.  Meanwhile Paypal retracted payment and slapped me with a $20 fee on top of that for their pain and suffering in having to debit my payment.  Then very quicklky I got an email saying they have decided in favor of the buyer.

Called ebay and they said there is NOTHING they will do for me. So now I'm without the item and the payment. I know I have been scammed by this guy, and Paypal and Ebay couldn't care less.

SELLERS BEWARE: you are not protected. Ebay doesn't protect you. It works against you. I have been an ebay member since 2000 and today is my last day. I will tell everyone I know this is a dangerous place to sell.

[a_c_green]

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@roylie82 wrote:
Forgot to mention....I did enter the tracking with PayPal as soon as I learned they opened a case. Gave them very convincing information but they say the buyers financial institution moved in his favor and they can do nothing.

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Just to be clear: you shipped the item to the address that you received with the payment, right? Is the PayPal dispute (the latest one, if more than one) for Item Not Received, or for an Unauthorized Purchase? (e.g. the buyer claiming that his credit card was stolen)

[missjen831]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

The OP was charged $20, so it was a credit card chargeback.

The item was sent with tracking and signature confirmation, so it was NOT an unauthorized use chargeback. Those are the only credit card cases that are slam dunks for sellers, and Paypal will have your back 100% if you have proof of shipment to the Paypal address. 

It sounds like the buyer bypassed Paypal entirely and went to their credit card for a  chargeback not related to delivery.  Paypal has NO SAY in these cases at all. NONE. They are only the processor. The credit card has all control.  If a buyer loses their CC chargeback, Paypal pays the $20 fee. If the seller loses, they do not.

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True paypal has no say but according to their own written user agreement, THEY are supposed to take the loss not the seller. The OP qualified for seller protection so if the seller lost the chargeback, paypal was supposed to cover the seller. Unfortunately OP did not handle this correctly and contacted ebay rather than his payment processor (paypal). I don't understand why anyone would go straight to ebay rather than paypal in this situation but....there's a lot of things people do here that don't make sense. Also when the chargeback was inititiated, paypal did sent the OP instructions so why those weren't followed and ebay was contacted is again....something I don't understand. 

[*eponymous*]

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takikawa4 wrote:  All you needed to do was enter the tracking number into the resolution center on PayPal. That would have taken care of everything.

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It was a chargeback, not an INR.

Paypal retracted payment and slapped me with a $20 fee

[*eponymous*]

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@takikawa4 wrote:

Seems like the buyer opened a chargeback case with their bank and not an INR with PayPal. Still, entering the tracking number should have taken care of that problem, especially with signature confirmation.

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Of course it was a chargeback.  The original post clearly said he paid the $20 chargeback fee. lol

The card issuer makes a unilateral decision. Entering a tracking number in a chargeback does nothing.

[takikawa4]

Good grief. Where IS that eye roll icon when I need it?

Yes, I'm aware it's a cc chargeback. 

[papermoneyforme]

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@roylie82 wrote:

Let's see how quickly this post gets yanked.

Sold a very high price item in June. Delivery confirmation showed it was delivered AND signed for at the correct address. Buyer states he never got it, demands a personal refund. I contact ebay to ask what to do? They said sit tight, he has to file a claim through ebay, don't refund him. So I did as asked--stupid I know. Next thing I know he filed a claim with paypal. Again I called ebay and let them know. They stated they work closely with Paypal, again don't worry about it.  Meanwhile Paypal retracted payment and slapped me with a $20 fee on top of that for their pain and suffering in having to debit my payment.  Then very quicklky I got an email saying they have decided in favor of the buyer.

Called ebay and they said there is NOTHING they will do for me. So now I'm without the item and the payment. I know I have been scammed by this guy, and Paypal and Ebay couldn't care less.

SELLERS BEWARE: you are not protected. Ebay doesn't protect you. It works against you. I have been an ebay member since 2000 and today is my last day. I will tell everyone I know this is a dangerous place to sell.

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Your best solution may be to send it to a collection agency called  Luigi and Guido

[southern*sweet*tea]

If anyone's interested:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/brc/chargebacks

What can you do to help protect yourself?

Always respond to credit card chargebacks. If you follow eligibility requirements, PayPal Seller Protection will protect you from liability for unauthorized transaction and INR chargebacks. Unfortunately, while SNAD chargebacks aren’t covered under PayPal Seller Protection, they can sometimes be resolved with the buyer before the dispute escalates.

If your transaction does not qualify for PayPal Seller Protection, you can still provide information that can help you win the chargeback.

[missjen831]

But did OP say this was an SNAD chargeback? It doesn't sound like it was an SNAD C/B. 

[one_collector_to_another]

I think that sellers should be able to post within their listings:

"No refunds will be issued for any non-receipt claims."

When proof of shipment and/or delivery is provided. Especially with signature confirmation.

Additionally since PayPal states that a seller is protected if the item(s) are shipped to the address provided on payment receipts/purchase orders.

I would definitely report it to the police as well as the carrier.

[missjen831]

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@one_collector_to_another wrote:

I think that sellers should be able to post within their listings:

"No refunds will be issued for any non-receipt claims."

When proof of shipment and/or delivery is provided. Especially with signature confirmation.

Additionally since PayPal states that a seller is protected if the item(s) are shipped to the address provided on payment receipts/purchase orders.

I would definitely report it to the police as well as the carrier.

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Sellers can post that. But why? Buyers can still open a case regardless and a scammer isn't going to follow a sellers unenforceable policies anyway! The seller needs proof of delivery for an INR case. Proof of shipment won't save them

[bigchief2472000]

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@missjen316 wrote:

But did OP say this was an SNAD chargeback? It doesn't sound like it was an SNAD C/B. 

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If the CC company did say their cutomer claimed it was SNAD, would paypal have them tell their customer to return the item before fullfilling the chargeback?  I would sure hope so.  The only way I can see for things to go down the way they did is if the seller didn't ship to the confirmed paypal address.  That question still hasn't been answered.

[missjen831]

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@bigchief2472000 wrote:

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@missjen316 wrote:

But did OP say this was an SNAD chargeback? It doesn't sound like it was an SNAD C/B. 

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If the CC company did say their cutomer claimed it was SNAD, would paypal have them tell their customer to return the item before fullfilling the chargeback?  I would sure hope so.  The only way I can see for things to go down the way they did is if the seller didn't ship to the confirmed paypal address.  That question still hasn't been answered.

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The seller can tell the buyer to return the item but basically.....the buyer isn't usually required to. PayPal won't require them to. Some card issuers require that the buyer only "attempt" to return the item. Some don't require even an attempt to return though. 

[bigchief2472000]

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@missjen316 wrote:

The seller can tell the buyer to return the item but basically.....the buyer isn't usually required to. PayPal won't require them to. Some card issuers require that the buyer only "attempt" to return the item. Some don't require even an attempt to return though. 

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Sounds like Paypal's "seller protection" is pretty useless if all the buyer has to do is say it wasn't as described.

[missjen831]

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@bigchief2472000 wrote:

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@missjen316 wrote:

The seller can tell the buyer to return the item but basically.....the buyer isn't usually required to. PayPal won't require them to. Some card issuers require that the buyer only "attempt" to return the item. Some don't require even an attempt to return though. 

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Sounds like Paypal's "seller protection" is pretty useless if all the buyer has to do is say it wasn't as described.

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Well the UA is clear on that--no protection on an SNAD chargeback. But for a regular PayPal dispute, the seller is entitled to get the item back before refunding and PayPal will support that but much like eBay, there isn't really seller protection when it comes to SNADs 🙂

[bigchief2472000]

All the Paypal disputes I've heard about before (outside of ebay) required the buyer to return the merchandise before Paypal would issue them a refund.  Seems like they would require the same on a chargeback for SNAD.