Scammed out of over $1k by Ebay - any recourse?

[banja]

Been selling on Ebay for 20 years, perfect track record during this time.   Had a buyer purchase an expensive item from us - sent with Signature Confirmation and signed for upon delivery.   Buyer opened a case the day of receipt saying they received an empty box.

Buyer's Ebay ID was a bunch of scrambled letters and numbers with no feedback.    Buyer's address was a freight forwarding company that if you google, the first page of listings all talk about people who have been scammed sending items there.    Seemed like a really easy case for Ebay - Ebay said they would request a police report from the buyer.   2 weeks later - Ebay refunds the buyer saying they received a police report. 

We can't believe this - so I call into Ebay and speak to a supervisor in the escalations department.  He explains that an appeal can only be filed through them as the appeals department only works through email.   I provided all this information to them during the call - he says he understands.   And here's the kicker - while I'm STILL on the phone with him as he is sending in the appeal, I get an automated email from Ebay stating that the appeal for the case has been denied because they believe their original decision is correct.   Literally while I'm still on the phone with him - I explain this to him.    He has no explanation - says there are no appeals previously documented on the case (which of course is true because this is the first time I'm calling about it and just received the case decision an hour prior).

So you can imagine how frustrated and angry I am right now - if there was ever a case that was so incredibly obvious the buyer was trying to scam, this is it - and somehow they get away with it?! 

If anyone has similar experiences and has any advice, please let me know.   We can't afford losing $1k over something like this that Ebay has really messed up on.    Thank you!

[greatmidwestcoin]

I can save everyone from reading this as any other post like this and simply say NO.

[simba6]

It's sad but  "they" know you can get free stuff on eBay that way.  eBay was never set up for such high value transactions.  Never sell an item you can't afford to lose.  All you can do is call back and ask for a supervisor. It may take several calls but you have nothing to lose.  They might issue a no fault refund where they eat the loss.  Just don't hold out too much hope. Wish I had better news.

[greatmidwestcoin]

Seriously though, here is what I would suggest as I have done it in the past and has worked.  FYI I have been here also for over 20 years.

Tell the buyer that in 2 days you will file a police report locally and with the buyer's PD for property theft. Use words like felony, property theft, etc. Then file letting the buyer know that you have on that day. My PD sends the buyer a certified letter on their letterhead stating your claim giving the buyer a certain number of days to return your property. Tell the buyer you will be filing with the US Postal Inspectors in 2 days if they do not confirm return of your property. Mail theft is a felony. Be specific on your days when you plan to take action and above all take that action on that day. Be short, all business, firm but polite in case your communications end up in court or with the PD to show what you have done.

[luckythewinner]

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@banja wrote:

if there was ever a case that was so incredibly obvious the buyer was trying to scam, this is it - and somehow they get away with it?! 

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Let's pretend there is an alternate universe somewhere, and in that universe the exact same transaction happened ... except in that universe, the seller actually did mail an empty box to the buyer. 

How would the eBay in that universe detect the difference? 

[greatmidwestcoin]

You always attack the poster.  Try offering some solutions.  Posters are not interested in your antidotes or your universes.

[downunder-61]

@ luckythe winner

Does your postal service/carrier service not have the weight recorded on the transaction receipt ?

Ignore me, I did not realise it was O/S transaction

[banja]

It was sent to a freight forwarder - the buyer isn't in the US.   I could see that working if they were in the US, but I don't think it has any effect on people outside the US as it seems to be a scam that's been around for a bit.   See here:  https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Obviously-fake-police-report-submitted-to-ebay-ebay-using-it-t...

[banja]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@banja wrote:

if there was ever a case that was so incredibly obvious the buyer was trying to scam, this is it - and somehow they get away with it?! 

---

Let's pretend there is an alternate universe somewhere, and in that universe the exact same transaction happened ... except in that universe, the seller actually did mail an empty box to the buyer. 

How would the eBay in that universe detect the difference? 

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How would eBay in that universe detect the difference?   Item shipped to a freight forwarder who is known for the same scam by multiple other sellers; buyer claims impossibly that "they" opened the box, but that's impossible since it was shipped to a freight forwarder who hasn't even shipped it out yet; freight forwarder using the address information says they received and shipped the item to their customer; and, chances are after reading another thread, buyer provided Ebay a fake police report that could easily be verified as such.

So, yes, in that universe there are many, many ways to detect the difference.

[jonathankirkland]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@banja wrote:

if there was ever a case that was so incredibly obvious the buyer was trying to scam, this is it - and somehow they get away with it?! 

---

Let's pretend there is an alternate universe somewhere, and in that universe the exact same transaction happened ... except in that universe, the seller actually did mail an empty box to the buyer. 

How would the eBay in that universe detect the difference? 

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Except for the fact who in their right mind "signs" for an empty package? It had signature confirmation. Nobody signs for and accepts an empty box, in any universe, ever.

[gjs_16]

One might almost suspect this as being the buyer's answer to those certain sellers who get into "Filing police report / File IC3 / File USPS report" as a way of fighting INAD's as is often discussed here.

[gjs_16]

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@jonathankirkland wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@banja wrote:

if there was ever a case that was so incredibly obvious the buyer was trying to scam, this is it - and somehow they get away with it?! 

---

Let's pretend there is an alternate universe somewhere, and in that universe the exact same transaction happened ... except in that universe, the seller actually did mail an empty box to the buyer. 

How would the eBay in that universe detect the difference? 

---

Except for the fact who in their right mind "signs" for an empty package? It had signature confirmation. Nobody signs for and accepts an empty box, in any universe, ever.

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Well, actually they would... Because a buyer that refuses delivery (the only other option) also gives up all rights to the MBG when they do, so better off signing and accepting the empty box, you see...

[inhawaii]

I'm sorry that happened to you ... but ... you have absolutely no proof that he buyer is cheating you. You have a "feeling" and you're probably right but what is ebay supposed to do?  They need proof not feelings. 

Again, i'm sorry this happened to you.

Good luck and stay safe.

[ittybitnot]

@dban 

The only thing I know that you can do about this is gather your information (item ID, transaction number, buyers name, address of FREIGHT forwarder,  etc.) and go to the ebay for business facebook page.  Do not post to the page, but rather use the MESSAGE feature to explain your case. Include your name, address, phone number, and seller ID. 

There are higher level ebay staff that monitor that information/requests that actually have the knowledge AND appropriate tools to help you.  The regular ebay customer service can only deny, deny, and deny some more when you ask for assistance.  The customer has already been refunded.  Any money given to you as a victim of this crime is going to have to come from ebay.  They certainly would rather you just give up and go away, and make the process frustrating.

This is NOT a new scam, but seemingly one that is becoming increasingly popular with certain 'buyers' that use the reshipper services.   See if you can get a copy of that "police report" used against you.  You may ask the regular CS for a copy saying you need it for "insurance purposes"  or whatever.  Every once in a while they will forward it to you, and you can see that it is phony. 

It used to be that simply using a freight forwarder was grounds for forfeiting the eBay money back guarantee, but that is no longer true.  The scammers on on this like 'white on rice'. 

Good luck to you, and do let us know how this turns out. 

[vanman1029]

I had something similiar happen to me, as a last resort, I messaged the buyer and asked for the address of his local police dept, he asked me why, I responded I was going to file charges against him, he immediately responded there was a mixup with another seller and I received my money.