Same zip code RETURN scam

[stop.here.and.buy]

New eBay buyer purchased an Intel 8th Gen i7-8700 processor for $323.99 from my eBay store on Mar 31, 2018. Shipped to his confirmed PayPal/eBay address.

A couple hours after delivery, the buyer opened a “Defective/Not working” return request stating that the product is faulty which was a surprise since an Intel CPU is the less likely component to fail in a computer. Nonetheless, I tried to look at this objectively and tried communicating with the buyer couple of times in the return request, no reply from the buyer. I accepted the return and I provided a free prepaid label to the buyer thinking that it will solve all the issues.

On the very last day to return the CPU, the buyer uploaded an invalid tracking # from Hong Kong to the return request. He did not use my prepaid return label.  I called eBay stating that the buyer shipped the product to a different address after delivery and that he voided his Buyer’s Protection in doing so. The CS agreed with me and closed the case in my favor and released the funds. To my surprise, couple of days later, the buyer contacted eBay to dispute the decision and got his money back by providing another tracking number showing delivery.

I was so surprised because I didn’t get any package from Hong Kong. So, I gave USPS a call regarding this package. The USPS CS rep asked for my name/address and was able to quickly find out where the package was delivered to. The package was addressed a Pizza store 26 streets away from my home with the same zip code. I quickly went to the Pizza store asking if they got any package from Hong Kong. I found out the tracking number is correct, but the address and recipient are wrong.

At this point, I knew I am being scammed by this buyer. I am currently filling all the reports I can to bring some light to this scammer and fight for my money. I just checked this buyer account and found out he purchased a similar CPU from another seller the very same day he got his refund back, which I believe will end up like me since this is not a legitimate buyer, but scammer.

Any input/help will be appreacited greatly. Thanks

[missjen831]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

The "secret" policies can actually help rather than hurt both buyers and sellers. There just cant be any blanket policies that will protect everyone in every situation because every situation can be different and needs to be investigated. I am just happy here that this case WAS investigated and made right in whatever way it could be, even though the scammer got the goods., This time perhaps, maybe not so much in the future we hope.

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Secret policies didn’t help the OP here and the only reason the OP got his money back is because of this thread. There was no investigation here.

[vintagecraze50]

Yes, the P.O. is a federally run operation and Mail Fraud is handled through them. It is a Federal Offense punishable with years in Federal prison and steep fines. This transaction took place with an international shipment back, so not sure how those laws apply here.  

[vintagecraze50]

I may be wrong but is appeared that the reps that this seller spoke to did not know how to handle this situation properly. So, yes, coming to the board helped this seller because people here knew how to direct him to get the right info and to continue to work on this with them.  Perhaps then if this was the case, then the reps need more education?

[vintagecraze50]

Looks like the only way to deal with these is to have the documented evidence from the Postal Service on where these packages are getting delivered. Had not thought about how with any ship back the buyer can use their own label and send the item to never never land, not just a Pizza parlor.

[badrock]

I am missing something here. How is this the reshipper's fault?  Reshippers provide a service same as GSP.  I feel more comfortable using them than a direct shipment via USPS and never again will use GSP another story.

I have used many of the re-shippers and know their addresses when I print ship label. Only 2 problems and both had nothing to do with reshipper. My policy is that all returned requests, ok no big deal, CLICK ACCEPT RETURN, ISSUE LABELno questions. Which the op did. Now where this gets fuzzy to me is why did eBay ignore the fact that the seller provided label and the scammer did not use it?

[bubbleman2010]

The old adage of birds of a feather flock together. Reshippers know exactly whats going on but just like ebay they profiteer from it so they turn a blind eye to it...  What does a reshipper do that the same service isn't provided by GSP only ebay can come up with a program and then also have in place a run around the end game also going on....

[retrose1]

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@badrock wrote:

I am missing something here. How is this the reshipper's fault?  Reshippers provide a service same as GSP.  I feel more comfortable using them than a direct shipment via USPS and never again will use GSP another story.

I have used many of the re-shippers and know their addresses when I print ship label. Only 2 problems and both had nothing to do with reshipper. My policy is that all returned requests, ok no big deal, CLICK ACCEPT RETURN, ISSUE LABELno questions. Which the op did. Now where this gets fuzzy to me is why did eBay ignore the fact that the seller provided label and the scammer did not use it?

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I was told almost 2 years ago by a US CS that soon ebay will ONLY accept a return ship label issued through the case/dispute.

The buyer couldn't use the ship label since the item was delivered to the reshipper, so the item had to be returned from them - in theory.  In ebay reality it appears that nothing matters except keeping the buy-uh-scammer happy so they will keep buying more.

A simple solution would be for ebay to only accept tracking numbers from labels sent through the case/dispute AND that means that the return must come from the address on the payment.  Anything else shouldbe rejected instead of becoming a situation a hidden policy needs to be created for.

[starroute-us]

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@stop.here.and.buy wrote:
Yes, that why I said the buyer was a winner in the end. He got to keep the item for free since he most likely pay almost nothing for the return shipping from HK. Shipping stuff from HK or China to the U.S is almost none.

Even though he was unregistered/banned in that account. I am pretty sure he will be back with another fake account to commit the same scam and most likely someone will fall to that scam.

He tasted the flavor of victory by getting to keep the item for free. I'm pretty sure, this victory had made the scammer even more resolute to come back again with another account and continue performing scam at the expense of honest sellers.

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Just another reason ebay should allow blocking of the PERSON not just an USER ID.

They are aking it very easy for seasoned scammers to do this over and over again:(

[stop.here.and.buy]

Yes sir, the only possible way to actually defend yourself is obtaining a proof from the USPS. The USPS Intranet Tracking is very very detailed all the way from the origin scan to the delivery scan. It is all well recorded in document, it has the package weight, postage paid and delivery address. Basically, all the info eBay CS's will need to catch the scam.

But I am going to tell you, this USPS document is not easy to obtain. Some Post Offices will not even show sympathy with you and send you away saying "Package shows delivery", nothing they can do. This actually happened to me in my local Post Office. The manager/supervisor is a super lazy women. No wonder, my P.O. rating in Google map is like 1.5....

[stop.here.and.buy]

I understand your point and completely agrees with you that a police report does add credibility to my claims regarding this scam. But eBay CS should had really looked at the evidence I had from the USPS. This document along should have cleared all doubts that this buyer intentionally shipped the return to a different address with the intent to perform this scam.

I don't know in which state you live, but in NYC I went to 4 different Police precinct with no luck trying to file a police report for a civil case. Nevertheless, I was able to obtain a police report after going to the 5th police precinct. However, this was not because they will do a police report for cases such as mine just to give a police report to eBay, at least not in NYC.

I have a friend who works as a Correction Officer and he referred me to his friend who is a Police Officer. It was no surprise, even his friend stated to me that they will not file a police report for CIVIL cases such as mine. So he asked other police officers on how to file a police report for cases such as mine after I explained everything to him. They debated a bit and decided to fill a police report under "Missing/Lost property" since this package was never delivered to me, but to a different address so...It is lost?

I also understand why most police stations will not help me file a police report. Filling this police report took about 40 minutes or maybe longer as he needed documents and asked a bunch of questions and more. eBay should consider asking people to get police reports as this is wasting their time and the tax payer money.

I had reported/document this buyer in the "Bad Buyer List ORG". Searching for "hotmeil" will give you the report so that you can have him in your watch list for future reference.

Thank you all for the great support and advice!!!

[chrysylys]

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@stop.here.and.buy wrote:
I understand your point and completely agrees with you that a police report does add credibility to my claims regarding this scam. But eBay CS should had really looked at the evidence I had from the USPS. This document along should have cleared all doubts that this buyer intentionally shipped the return to a different address with the intent to perform this scam.

I don't know in which state you live, but in NYC I went to 4 different Police precinct with no luck trying to file a police report for a civil case. 

It was no surprise, even his friend stated to me that they will not file a police report for CIVIL cases such as mine. So he asked other police officers on how to file a police report for cases such as mine after I explained everything to him. They debated a bit and decided to fill a police report under "Missing/Lost property" since this package was never delivered to me, but to a different address so...It is lost?!!!

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What's no surprise is that the PoPo was looking in the wrong place.

U.S. Attorneys » Resources » U.S. Attorneys' Manual » Criminal Resource Manual » CRM 500-999 » Criminal Resource Manual 901-999

940. 18 U.S.C. Section 1341—Elements of Mail Fraud

"There are two elements in mail fraud: (1) having devised or intending to devise a scheme to defraud (or to perform specified fraudulent acts), and (2) use of the mail for the purpose of executing, or attempting to execute, the scheme (or specified fraudulent acts)."  Schmuck v. United States, 489 U.S. 705, 721 n. 10 (1989); see also Pereira v. United States, 347 U.S. 1, 8 (1954) ("The elements of the offense of mail fraud under . . . §  1341 are (1) a scheme to defraud, and (2) the mailing of a letter, etc., for the purpose of executing the scheme."); Laura A. Eilers & Harvey B. Silikovitz, Mail and Wire Fraud, 31 Am. Crim. L. Rev. 703, 704 (1994)

https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-940-18-usc-section-1341-elements-mail-fraud

Federal Prosecutors prefer that smaller, individual cases be handled at the State level:

"9-43.100 - Prosecution Policy Relating to Mail Fraud and Wire Fraud.

Prosecutions of fraud ordinarily should not be undertaken if the scheme employed consists of some isolated transactions between individuals, involving minor loss to the victims, in which case the parties should be left to settle their differences by civil or criminal litigation in the state courts. Serious consideration, however, should be given to the prosecution of any scheme which in its nature is directed to defrauding a class of persons, or the general public, with a substantial pattern of conduct."

https://www.justice.gov/usam/usam-9-43000-mail-fraud-and-wire-fraud#9-43.100

[badrock]

Yes the buyer can't use the return label true. But the seller is only responsible for return postage from the address shipped. Should not be of consequence that they reshipped it. They got it out then they return it. Ok Ok before ya'll kill me I know this is eBay and the rules change minute by minute. But I thought the sellers only responsibility was to get it safely to the address listed.

GSP is a joke I quit due to all the damage claims, which I know is not my problem. But every one filed eBay froze my funds and it took several phone calls to reps. One rep even told me not their problem I had to call GSP.

I had 2 problems with reshippers, both not working. Okay sorry here is a label return them. One buyer goes ballistic I can't it is in Russia. I'm like okay just return it. No it is covered by eBay buyer protection, both of them used that and both said you offer 30 day guarantee. Okay call eBay. One buyer was like okay I'll return as soon as you issue full refund LOL. Both sent emails refusing returns, eBay closed cases in my favor.

By the way both items were brand new and tested and the only way they would be faulty is if they were snapped in half.