eBay

Anonymous · ‎09-18-2017

Hello all,

As the title suggests, a buyer requested a return, then responded in an angry tone, and about a week later left me negative feedback.

Here's what happened:

1. Through eBay messages, buyer asked if he could return an item. He mistakenly assumed that the item was one meter in length (not half a meter).

(The listing clearly states the item length (50 cm / 19.6") in the title, the item specifics, and 3 more times in the description. )

2. I responded right away that we welcome returns for a full refund, and provided simple instructions on how to use the eBay hassle-free returns process.

3. Buyer responds in a furious tone with a message filled with profanity. He suggests that we're the "worst scummy crook seller on the planet that he'll never deal with anymore". He complained about the return shipping and said there's no way he's paying shipping on his dime. He further went on to complain about the item price and how he thinks he should have gotten at least 2.5 meters of the item for the price he paid. He said that he'll just keep the item and "eat the $20" because he doesn't want to pay $3 postage to return the item.

4. I didn't respond to the buyer's angry message and just waited, hoping he'd disappear and not leave any feedback.

5. About a week later, buyer left negative feedback on Saturday 9/16. Feedback states "misleading ad, not happy with product, not paying to ship it back on my dime."

6. Here I am now, looking for suggestions on getting this neg removed.

I'm thinking perhaps have eBay read the buyer's messages first, to get a sense of how unreasonable it is to expect free return shipping for a buyer's remorse return that was clearly a result of the buyer's own faulty assumptions and/or failure to read the listing details?

It almost sounds like he was hoping for a freebie or a partial refund. I'm not caving in to that, especially after receiving his disrespectful, profanity-laced message.

If the neg sticks, what would you say in response to the neg?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Anonymous · ‎09-19-2017

@missjen316 wrote:
@coolections wrote:
@yuzuha
Not a full refund. The buyer would get $3 less than they originally paid. THAT would be a full refund.
A full refund doesn't include return shipping. A full refund is a refund of the item price + Shipping.

Thank you @yuzuha and @missjen831 for clarifying that. The way I understand it, a full refund means a refund of the item price plus original shipping. It does not include return shipping. In this case, the buyer paid $19.99 which included free shipping. The proposed refund to the buyer is $19.99. I don't charge restocking fees, so the buyer would receive a $19.99 refund. The return shipping label would be right at $3 or less, so that is the cost the buyer would incur to return this item.

hawgryders · ‎09-19-2017

@southernfriedbelle wrote:
"The negative feedback is your reward for deciding the customer was wrong --- it is a consequence of not seeing the "big picture" when dealing with a irrational buyer ..."

@hawgryders

I don't understand your response to the OP. The buyer WAS wrong, but the OP did the right thing in replying immediately, offering a full refund for the item upon it's return. Then, apparently because the buyer didn't like this solution, the buyer goes off on the OP, cursing included

How would you have handled this differently, and exactly how do you see the buyer being in the right in this situation?

The seller should have paid the return postage --- this is what is expected these days by consumers --- almost all retailers offer "no-fault" returns --- and to most it makes no difference if it is a Mega-seller or a Home-based seller

AS for me --- I would have refunded without requiring a return --- then I would have apologised for the mis-understanding, and gone back in to clarify my listing to ensure it did not happen again

Understanding that the "buyer is always right" is something I learned back in the 70's when I opened my first shop --- the last thing any business needs is a loud disgruntled customer bad mounting them --- or in the case of eBay leaving negative feedback

Never said it was right --- just said it was reality

reallynicestamps · ‎09-19-2017

You might respond Size stated 5 times in listing!!! It's up to you to READ!!! or some such

I strongly disagree.

Who reads Feedback?

Not sellers.

More than 80% of transactions are Fixed Price. The seller meets the buyer when he pays.

In the few auctions still being run, most have a Buy It Now option. The seller meets the BIN buyer when he pays.

In the even fewer auctions that get bids, most arrive in the last few minutes or even seconds. The seller meets the buyer when he pays.

The only ones who read Buyer FB are your future customers.

And what will be the reaction of a potential customer to a seller chastising a previous buyer? Over a quality issue?

The OP should call Customer Support and ask for removal.

If it is refused, remember that an interested future customer can look at the neg and compare it to the description.

Some buyers do read.

Anonymous · ‎09-19-2017

@hawgryders wrote:
@southernfriedbelle wrote:
"The negative feedback is your reward for deciding the customer was wrong --- it is a consequence of not seeing the "big picture" when dealing with a irrational buyer ..."

@hawgryders

I don't understand your response to the OP. The buyer WAS wrong, but the OP did the right thing in replying immediately, offering a full refund for the item upon it's return. Then, apparently because the buyer didn't like this solution, the buyer goes off on the OP, cursing included

How would you have handled this differently, and exactly how do you see the buyer being in the right in this situation?
The seller should have paid the return postage --- this is what is expected these days by consumers --- almost all retailers offer "no-fault" returns --- and to most it makes no difference if it is a Mega-seller or a Home-based seller

AS for me --- I would have refunded without requiring a return --- then I would have apologised for the mis-understanding, and gone back in to clarify my listing to ensure it did not happen again

Understanding that the "buyer is always right" is something I learned back in the 70's when I opened my first shop --- the last thing any business needs is a loud disgruntled customer bad mounting them --- or in the case of eBay leaving negative feedback

Never said it was right --- just said it was reality

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I see where you're coming from, certainly there are an increasing number of consumers who are beginning to expect the concept of "free returns" - meaning absolutely no restocking fees and free return shipping -- even for buyer's remorse returns. I see where this makes sense for certain items such as shoes, but typically this holds true mainly for sites like the River or other mega-sellers.

In a recent personal experience, I bought a new printer which I thought I needed to replace my current printer which suddenly stopped working. Well, as it turns out, it was a port configuration problem and I actually got the old printer working again. But the new printer already shipped out; it was too late to cancel. The new printer arrived on time, and I was debating whether to keep it or return it. I started a return, knowing that I'd have to pay return shipping. I figured if it was around $10-15 or so I wouldn't mind paying that to return. But the return shipping was $30, so I decided I'd rather keep it since the original cost, including shipping, was only $99 (which I already thought was a great deal). While "free returns / free return shipping" is admittedly a nice "perk" to a buyer, I honestly don't expect it for buyer's remorse returns.

If the seller makes a mistake or sends an item that turns out to be SNAD/defective, then of course the whole situation changes and I fully expect the seller to issue a full refund and cover the cost of return shipping.

When I get a negative feedback, I always do my homework to see what, if anything, can be done to prevent such a situation from happening in the future. But with this particular item/listing, I honestly don't know what could be done to improve. It's a multi-quantity, Good-Til-Cancelled listing that I've sold dozens of over the past 5+ years. There hasn't been a single complaint, and feedback from other buyers is all positive. The buyer's complaint was the item length. It was for a half-meter (50cm, 19.6") length, which was clearly stated in the title, the item specifics, and three more times in the description. The buyer said he was under the impression that he would be getting a meter of hose, or more than 36". When the item is stated as being 19.6" in length, I don't see how one can misunderstand to think that they're going to get 36"+.

Do you have any suggestions on how you would clarify a listing that is already crystal clear?

Also, what do you think about a hypothetical situation where the item is really heavy. What if return shipping would amount to over $100 -- do you think the seller should foot the return shipping cost simply because the buyer said "I just don't like it", or "I changed my mind", or "I misread the listing and didn't realize the size was not as I expected"?

Anonymous · ‎09-19-2017

I have some good news -- the neg has been removed!

A big shout out to @yuzuha and @dhjeans -- many thanks for the encouragement and advice to call eBay and try for removal. Luckily, the representative took the time to review the messages and decided in fact that the buyer's comment "misleading ad" was untrue since the item size was clearly stated in the title, item specifics, and description.

I had previously filed reports on the buyer, once for the profanity in messaging, and a second time for the inappropriate feedback. Perhaps the rep took those reports into consideration as well.

At first I didn't have much hope for removal when the rep initially started explaining the usual, "Well, it's normally very rare that we remove negative feedback because it represents the buyer's opinion...." But I shared the background information and asked if he'd please review the messages, so he did, and took a few minutes to do so. Thank goodness I got a rep who did the right thing.

Thank you again everyone for the additional thoughts and responses!

siayan · ‎09-19-2017

I told you that neg probably wouldn't be removed. I love it when sellers come back and say na na na na naaaa na.

Good for you. Good news is scarce so we love it when we get a win.

____________________________________________________________________
Prov 20:14 It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth.

seafordtradingco · ‎09-19-2017

I totally disagree. This is ebay where most of the sellers are tiny sellers selling at absolutely rock bottom prices. The reason prices on here are rock bottom is because we DON'T have to pay for return shipping (yet). If a person wants the luxury of free shipping both ways, go to a big box store and order it. You can't have it both ways in life. Either you pay for premium service or you get rock bottom prices. Asking the seller to pay for remorse returns on ebay is like expecting amenities like The Ritz Hotel while staying at the Motel 6. I totally own up to my mistakes and will do anything to correct them, including taking a loss. But I'm not going to pay return shipping for someone who won't read what they are buying. I'll take the negative. I don't want customers who expect something for NOTHING. Those types are the worst. AND SHE GOT THE NEG REMOVED.

Anonymous · ‎09-19-2017

@siayan wrote:
I told you that neg probably wouldn't be removed. I love it when sellers come back and say na na na na naaaa na.

Good for you. Good news is scarce so we love it when we get a win.

Thanks Siayan for being one of the first to chime in on the thread. Well you were right too, about giving it a shot for the profanity issue. I mentioned to the rep that the buyer sent a rather nasty message, so I assume he saw the profanity and that might have also swayed his decision in favor of removing the neg.

I knew from the start it's always an extremely slim chance of getting eBay to remove a neg. But, I figure it can't hurt to try. Glad I did. Maybe I was lucky, got a good US-based rep who took the time to review all the facts of the case and was understanding of the situation.

yuzuha · ‎09-19-2017

So glad to hear that! I'm glad it worked out for you. 🙂

Anonymous · ‎09-19-2017

@luxe_auto_parts wrote:
We recently have faced the same situation. One of the buyers has started complaining about package he got his order in. He claimed he was very disappointed with purchase, because the item has been delivered (BTW, even earlier than was stated) and packaged into bubble wrapping package, but not in the original package (the listing never said it was in the original package nor the pictures showed). It **bleep** me off and I replied him with sarcastic message in which I asked if the package was the only problem. He replied then I should have more respect to him of something like this and has opened the return case in which has stated he got NOT new product. He left the negative feedback immediately after this and has dissapeared and stopped responding for our messages. Yes, I realize It was my bad I haven't had enough patience and could reply to him with in "polite" form. To summarize, I can say we have provided him with a high quality product with !the lowest! price on whole ebay site (even cheaper than similar item from China), with 3-day delivery service and still haven't matched his expectations. We've immediately report the buyer, but ebay support team is sloooooooow like a sloth. I assume we ran into some kind of everytimedissapointedandrycustomer. ) We can't do much about this, but for a future I decided not responding for such claims.

And yes, the sellers on eBay are like those nerds in school which have been bullied by the buyers. =|

@luxe_auto_parts

Sorry to hear about your negative feedback from the battery buyer. That's a real bummer to get a neg over product packaging. The buyer was probably expecting the batteries to come in a carded package or the like. I assume you get those batteries in a bulk package and sell them wrapped in bubble wrap?

The negative feedback certainly is undeserved, but since it's happened with this buyer, I would do all I can to avoid a repeat occurrence in the future. Maybe change your listing details to say "New-other", and mention that the batteries do not come in the manufacturer's carded pack or box but instead are bare and just wrapped in bubble wrap (or in a small ziplock baggie). You could also add a photo of exactly how the batteries are packed (i.e., in the bubble wrap).

I sell auto parts also, and often times we get small items that are not individually packaged. The manufacturer sends parts in bulk quantities of say 10, 20, or more in a large bag and expects us to repackage into individual bags or whatever. I use ziplock baggies, so I state in the listing item specifics that the item is packed in a plastic ziplock bag.

hawgryders · ‎09-19-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
@hawgryders wrote:
@southernfriedbelle wrote:
"The negative feedback is your reward for deciding the customer was wrong --- it is a consequence of not seeing the "big picture" when dealing with a irrational buyer ..."

@hawgryders

I don't understand your response to the OP. The buyer WAS wrong, but the OP did the right thing in replying immediately, offering a full refund for the item upon it's return. Then, apparently because the buyer didn't like this solution, the buyer goes off on the OP, cursing included

How would you have handled this differently, and exactly how do you see the buyer being in the right in this situation?
The seller should have paid the return postage --- this is what is expected these days by consumers --- almost all retailers offer "no-fault" returns --- and to most it makes no difference if it is a Mega-seller or a Home-based seller

AS for me --- I would have refunded without requiring a return --- then I would have apologised for the mis-understanding, and gone back in to clarify my listing to ensure it did not happen again

Understanding that the "buyer is always right" is something I learned back in the 70's when I opened my first shop --- the last thing any business needs is a loud disgruntled customer bad mounting them --- or in the case of eBay leaving negative feedback

Never said it was right --- just said it was reality
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.   I see where you're coming from, certainly there are an increasing number of consumers who are beginning to expect the concept of "free returns" - meaning absolutely no restocking fees and free return shipping -- even for buyer's remorse returns. I see where this makes sense for certain items such as shoes, but typically this holds true mainly for sites like the River or other mega-sellers.

In a recent personal experience, I bought a new printer which I thought I needed to replace my current printer which suddenly stopped working.   Well, as it turns out, it was a port configuration problem and I actually got the old printer working again. But the new printer already shipped out; it was too late to cancel.   The new printer arrived on time, and I was debating whether to keep it or return it. I started a return, knowing that I'd have to pay return shipping. I figured if it was around $10-15 or so I wouldn't mind paying that to return. But the return shipping was $30, so I decided I'd rather keep it since the original cost, including shipping, was only $99 (which I already thought was a great deal).    While "free returns / free return shipping" is admittedly a nice "perk" to a buyer, I honestly don't expect it for buyer's remorse returns.

If the seller makes a mistake or sends an item that turns out to be SNAD/defective, then of course the whole situation changes and I fully expect the seller to issue a full refund and cover the cost of return shipping.

When I get a negative feedback, I always do my homework to see what, if anything, can be done to prevent such a situation from happening in the future.   But with this particular item/listing, I honestly don't know what could be done to improve. It's a multi-quantity, Good-Til-Cancelled listing that I've sold dozens of over the past 5+ years.   There hasn't been a single complaint, and feedback from other buyers is all positive.    The buyer's complaint was the item length. It was for a half-meter (50cm, 19.6") length, which was clearly stated in the title, the item specifics, and three more times in the description.   The buyer said he was under the impression that he would be getting a meter of hose, or more than 36".    When the item is stated as being 19.6" in length, I don't see how one can misunderstand to think that they're going to get 36"+.

Do you have any suggestions on how you would clarify a listing that is already crystal clear?

Also, what do you think about a hypothetical situation where the item is really heavy. What if return shipping would amount to over $100 -- do you think the seller should foot the return shipping cost simply because the buyer said "I just don't like it", or "I changed my mind", or "I misread the listing and didn't realize the size was not as I expected"?

Luckily most buyers are honest people who would not deliberately cheat a seller --- but in the case of an "entitled buyer" there is no hope

On eBay there is a fine tool called a "bidder block" which eliminates repeated abuse from a buyer

As for the description being vague --- if a person misses an important point then re-evaluating the listing is in order --- and if it is good then chalk it up to an idiot with a credit card ...

dazzlecity · ‎09-19-2017

To all the sellers here who keep advising other sellers to just give them their money back - just how many times do you seriously think a seller should do that? Really? Honestly these past few months have been horrible in this regard. You can't tell me a seller who has a sterling reputation - sold thousands of items - been here for years and is still here working away is a loser seller. Ebay has taken the scammers and put them thru school. Their very good at their craft. They know precisely how to work the system and ebay is supporting them. Is this all that we have left? Sell something - line the pockets of ebay and paypal and the post office and just get back to work. Sellers don't need to make money - just give it all away to other people. It's getting pretty ridiculous. And the demands on us just keep piling up. The hoop jumping grows almost monthly. Come on now - somebody at ebay needs to get some common sense. The sellers are not the enemy. We are supposed to be business partners.

coolections · ‎09-19-2017

@missjen316 wrote:
A full refund doesn't include return shipping. A full refund is a refund of the item price + Shipping.

@missjen831

That is not what the buyer said. The buyer said they would have to pay $23 to get $20 back. We cannot see the item or description, it sounds like it is a he said/she said. One says misleading description and the other says buyers remorse. The buyer never mentioned it was remorse, the seller said that.

luxe_auto_parts · ‎09-20-2017

Wow! So many answers here! And this is just one thread among hundreds and hundreds of other. I wish eBay Team takes its time to read some of them to make RIGHT and mature decisions. It would have helped a lot if they could read some threads through and wrote down some thoughts, so eBay could become a better place both for sellers and buyers.

I'm glad to hear that OP has resolved his/her problem and got rid of the unfair feedback. I have started thincking if I could call the support and ask them to remove the negative feedback I received...

luxe_auto_parts · ‎09-20-2017

Totally agree. It was my bad not mentioned that batteries come in a bulk package. But in my first message to the buyer I've tried to explain it to him and even mentioned the reason why we do so - we want to reduce our expenses on shipping.

You are as a seller should understand that if I would set the status as "New-other" my listing immediately will lose exposure. For buyers this status means "Used" or something like used. For batteries cat. the status other than "New" would be considered as "Trash", but I have learned the lesson and won't make the same mistake in a future.

Thank you for your support and suggestions.)