Rejected return case

[zbenji289]

So in a little situation here. I recently sold a watch here on eBay, went to authenticator and everything went well on the shipping side, buyer received it and immediately wanted to return it as it was too heavy and didn’t fit. (Was new watch and not sized to wrist) I don’t allow returns and offered to swap it out and gave other options. He was upset and demanded a return. Buyer went ahead and contacted his credit card company and they told him to ship it back. He went post office and returned it to the authenticator without my or ebays approval and eventually ended up back to me. eBay denied the return as it was not a valid reason for a return. I’m worried that his credit card company will give him his money back after I ship it back and could be a possible scam. He’s now threatening legal action against me. All help/suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks!

[dhbookds]

I would certainly call ebay and ask for a authentication specialist........I would NOT mail it back.......until/if they tell you to......

[dbfolks166mt]

     I am assuming this was the Breitling watch. First and foremost "no returns" does not mean no refunds. It is only pertinent in the case of a remorse return which eBay must have categorized this as. I would, as dhbookds NOT send the watch back to the buyer again. 

     That being said since this went back through the authentication center I am assuming they authenticated the return item as being the same one you sent. There are a couple issues here. 

1. The eBay fees. Did eBay refund you the FVF's on the sale or do they still have them since they denied the return? 

2. Your costs for shipping, insurance, etc. 

     Ethically you have the watch back and still have the buyers money. Complexity here is eBay denied the return, your costs and the buyers money. Buyer is due a refund but probably not in full. I would talk to an eBay rep, use the Facebook connection since call in support is useless these days, to find out how to proceed. You should probably refund the buyer the purchase price less any expenses: Shipping, insurance, eBay fees. The amount would depend on whether eBay retains their fees or refunds you for those. 

     Worse case buyer opens a chargeback with their CC company. EBay would no longer be responsible for making the decision regarding the chargeback and the buyer could be refunded in full since they did return the watch. Be glad that the buyer did not simply open a chargeback with their CC company in which case they probably would have won, been fully reimbursed and probably been allowed to keep the watch. 

[momdadsstash]

You have the watch yes?

If I understood  that correctly, why not just refund the price, less expenses?

[dbfolks166mt]

You have the watch yes?

If I understood  that correctly, why not just refund the price, less expenses?

The complexity with this item is eBay denied the return which means eBay still has, I am assuming, their FVF's and on a 5K watch those would be significant. The buyer is probably not going to be happy about a refund that deducts $500-$600 in expenses. 

[dnasilver]

So you have the watch and money. Why not just refund less legit expenses and move on? Seems simple and really not worth the headache. Then list the watch again. 

[toysaver]

"eBay denied the return as it was not a valid reason for a return."

Seems odd, eBay will let people return pretty much anything for any reason.  'Doesn't fit' is a top contender for a valid return reason.   Are you sure it was not you who amateurishly denied a return request?   You have the money and the watch, an unethical situation.

[zbenji289]

The authenticators just forwarded it back to me without saying a thing, There was no authentication card in the box when I received it. Which, if authenticated and legit, would have a card with it. I’m worried the movement could have been swapped out with an aftermarket one and then I’ll be out of luck. 

[zbenji289]

I’m positive. I state no returns accepted. Which he opened a return case and eBay viewed and denied it. He shipped to the authenticators without eBay tracing. I called eBay when he shipped it and they said they would divert it back to him which didn’t happen

[zbenji289]

They still have the fees. He did contact his CC company as that’s what he said. If I were to refund him, less expenses, what would that do with the fees, taxes etc?

[slati_2013]

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@zbenji289 wrote:

The authenticators just forwarded it back to me without saying a thing, There was no authentication card in the box when I received it. Which, if authenticated and legit, would have a card with it. I’m worried the movement could have been swapped out with an aftermarket one and then I’ll be out of luck. 

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You should refund the buyer. The buyer's action shows they don't know how eBay works. If he was a scammer, he would have held onto the watch, waited for you to refuse the return and ended up with both the watch and your money.

You can't keep the watch and the money. eBay will force a refund and take it out of any future sales. If you ship it back to him you will lose both the watch and your money. Just refund. If you don't, I can assure you, you will not like any of the outcomes coming up. 

[dbfolks166mt]

The authenticators just forwarded it back to me without saying a thing, There was no authentication card in the box when I received it. Which, if authenticated and legit, would have a card with it. I’m worried the movement could have been swapped out with an aftermarket one and then I’ll be out of luck. 

I would think a watch of that value would have a serial number on it. You could always use a local jewelry store to authenticate. 

[dbfolks166mt]

They still have the fees. He did contact his CC company as that’s what he said. If I were to refund him, less expenses, what would that do with the fees, taxes etc?

This is the complexity of your situation and the reason you need to contact eBay through the FB connection. Buyer would probably be OK, maybe, with a refund less the shipping and insurance cost but if you cannot get the fees and tax situation straightened out with eBay and deduct those from the refund the buyer is probably not going to be happy with a refund minus the $500-600 in fees a taxes. 

[caseypl]

People threaten legal action all the time, so don't worry about that. I don't picture him hiring a lawyer (or a lawyer entertaining a civil matter) over a watch. Most people aren't going to pursue it and it's a veiled threat. 

The buyer send something back to you unauthorized. It's the equivalent of someone purchasing a car from a dealership, trying to return it after the cooling off period, being denied, and then showing up at midnight and returning the car there and hoping they refund it. Can you imagine the precedent this type of return process would create if allowed? 

I had a buyer send me back a large dash pad I sold. He sent it back on his own and paid $150 to ship it from CA To FL, despite that I denied the return in Ebay when I saw it since he said it wouldn't fit his damaged dash. My conscience ate at me. I wanted to refund him, but then I looked at feedback he left for others and he seems to return every single item he buys (allegedly/my opinion). So I haven't done anything with it. I imagine he is juggling alot of different returns and they might all be too hard to keep up with. I'm not going to be a seller than panics over getting an item back. 

[caseypl]

Correct. Buyers do not understand that sellers actually have fees on this platform, shipping expenses, time involved in shipping, listing, re-listing, meticulously looking over a returned item to make sure it's the same, etc. All a buyer sees is the money they spent. 

If you walk into a UPS store, you will see what a return entitled society we have. You'll see a line of people with opened boxes and packages from a retailer with a QR code on their phone for the return. They can't even tape their own stuff up and send it back. The retailer most likely has all this stuff sent directly to a landfill because it's cheaper than taking back and a refund gets issued immediately. This is the environment we are dealing in.