Promoted Listings Advanced

[katzrul15]

Have read thru this a couple of times.  

Will this mean that PLs as we know them now will essentially be worthless/not effective?

A little concerning as we use PLs quite a bit currently.  Not certain our budget can work for the PL Advanced or that I have a "daily" budget for PL Advanced?

Thoughts?  

How Promoted Listings AdvancedBETA works

Promoted Listings AdvancedBETA is based on a cost-per-click model. You start by deciding how much each keyword and click is worth to you. Next, you bid to target placements at the top of eBay search results. Top placements show your listings to buyers right when they’re looking for your items across all experiences on eBay, including desktop, mobile, and the eBay app.

With this new type of campaign, you’ll be able to:

• Bid for the top slot in search using keyword and budget controls, and pay per click.
• Select the keywords that matter to you.
• Set a daily budget for additional control.

To set up your first campaign, go to the Seller Hub Marketing tab. You can create a new campaign within the Advertising dashboard by following these simple steps:

1. Name your campaign.
2. Choose dates and a daily budget.
3. Name your Ad Group.
4. Add your listings and keywords to the Ad Group.
5. Select a maximum cost-per-click for the keywords, displayed as “CPC bids” in the tool.

Review your campaign after you complete these steps.

Top tips

• Use features like suggested keywords and bids to help you set up effective campaigns.
• Include high-quality listings in your campaign with complete and accurate item specifics and great photos for the best chance of gaining high visibility. In addition to your bid, factors including keyword relevancy, listing quality, competition, and daily budget determine whether your ad will appear in the number one position.
• Use the daily budget feature to manage your ad spend.

You can also use both Promoted Listings Standard and Advanced together to help achieve maximum visibility for your ad placements across the eBay network, and utilize both budget approaches for your ad spend.

Coming later this month—Promoted Listings AdvancedBETA

Starting at the end of this month, Promoted Listings AdvancedBETA will be available to all eligible Promoted Listings sellers. If you’re eligible, you’ll be able to opt in to Promoted Listings AdvancedBETA to start bidding for the highly coveted top spot in the search results, as soon as it’s accessible.

All existing Promoted Listings campaigns will automatically be renamed Promoted Listings Standard campaigns, without you having to do anything. The only changes will be to the name and attribution logic.

[nuclearomen]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques @zamo-zuan 
1-2% is maximum you need for PLS, you can do more if want but won't really help sell it faster, it just lets ebay show that listing in more listings (other sellers listings). But the seller level still applies with PLS, if you are TRS with 100% and no defects and good record in that category, offer TRP listings, have a store you will place higher in search and have just as many placements on listings (other sellers listings) as someone electing 10% or has defects on their matrix or don't have a store...etc... The issue is, and has always been, what listings ebay decided to place those PLS ads. It's off that when i have vinyl that relates to another band wise - like same member(s) in each or both bands are very similar in style and place those other band names in title of item, ebay some how decided not to show that PL in the others listing or when i have multiple albums of same band it may show 1 other and not all... never could really figure out how they decide what PL to show on other listings and what ones not to... it's a mystery to me. 

[zamo-zuan]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques @zamo-zuan 
1-2% is maximum you need for PLS, you can do more if want but won't really help sell it faster, it just lets ebay show that listing in more listings (other sellers listings). 

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This is how it used to be for years. Until last year, when I posted our sudden drop. This is when eBay moderators stated it was a "test" for marketing in our category.

If you check the graph I shared here - https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Promoted-Listings-Advanced/m-p/32319986/highlight/true#M184654... - You can see what happens if we change it to 2% (we did on the 23rd). 

1% or 2% or 3% even, all performs the same in our category. You see that drop we're facing? That's what happens every time we test below 4% in this category. Other categories of our products do the same, but at 3%. Absolutely none of our categories perform well on 1% or 2% anymore.

From all the reports recently, it seems eBay has been spreading this "test" to other categories than Motors. I guess they thought it was a "success"...

[zamo-zuan]

For clarity, this is the post I mean: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Potential-problem-with-Promoted-Listings-impressions/m-p/31218...

Does the graph at that post a year ago look familiar? Compare to our recent one.

Ever since then, exactly a year ago as of Mid September, 1-3% is worthless. And as eBay had admit, this was a test.

Again, apparently the test was a success, as it's stayed that way for a year now. Every few months we've tried changes to confirm it, and sure enough, it's proven to be true.

There's a number of sellers who had contacted me over the last year as a result of that post. They ask for advice, and all I have to tell them is to NOT allow eBay to set the peer rates, and test each percentage, raising 1% at a time until they find what works in their category. And once you find that number, you must base your sales strategy around that percentage, or else you will lose a large amount of impressions/sales/visibility.

[nuclearomen]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques @zamo-zuan 
1-2% is maximum you need for PLS, you can do more if want but won't really help sell it faster, it just lets ebay show that listing in more listings (other sellers listings). 

---

This is how it used to be for years. Until last year, when I posted our sudden drop. This is when eBay moderators stated it was a "test" for marketing in our category.

If you check the graph I shared here - https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Promoted-Listings-Advanced/m-p/32319986/highlight/true#M184654... - You can see what happens if we change it to 2% (we did on the 23rd). 

1% or 2% or 3% even, all performs the same in our category. You see that drop we're facing? That's what happens every time we test below 4% in this category. Other categories of our products do the same, but at 3%. Absolutely none of our categories perform well on 1% or 2% anymore.

From all the reports recently, it seems eBay has been spreading this "test" to other categories than Motors. I guess they thought it was a "success"...

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that could be, not sure myself, hard to know what they are doing cause they don't release info. But sounds to me if that is case that they are getting their - or at least half of their Daily Suggested Rates if you elect that option or not, likely cause many won't, i won't and i still make sales on 1-2% elections across the board. 

[katzrul15]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques @zamo-zuan 
1-2% is maximum you need for PLS, you can do more if want but won't really help sell it faster, it just lets ebay show that listing in more listings (other sellers listings). 

---

This is how it used to be for years. Until last year, when I posted our sudden drop. This is when eBay moderators stated it was a "test" for marketing in our category.

If you check the graph I shared here - https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Promoted-Listings-Advanced/m-p/32319986/highlight/true#M184654... - You can see what happens if we change it to 2% (we did on the 23rd). 

1% or 2% or 3% even, all performs the same in our category. You see that drop we're facing? That's what happens every time we test below 4% in this category. Other categories of our products do the same, but at 3%. Absolutely none of our categories perform well on 1% or 2% anymore.

From all the reports recently, it seems eBay has been spreading this "test" to other categories than Motors. I guess they thought it was a "success"...

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This is what we are experiencing as well.  I had nothing above 2% and most at 1-1.5%.  Hit a brick wall more than 10 days ago on sales.  

I changed several to 2% and found no impact or view changes and on 2, the views were "less".

I put the same set this week at 3.5% and the views on those items shot up and we sold 2 of them the next day after altering them on a campaign.  

What is concerning is that I never used more than 1-1.5% before.  Never.  And our sales were fine, steady, etc.  

Remember when I said I do not have a "budget" for PLA?  Well, guess what, I now do not have a budget for PLS.  Not viable for us to give up another 3.5% to 5% or more per item.  Especially, if it is already on sale.

[nuclearomen]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

For clarity, this is the post I mean: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Potential-problem-with-Promoted-Listings-impressions/m-p/31218...

Does the graph at that post a year ago look familiar? Compare to our recent one.

Ever since then, exactly a year ago as of Mid September, 1-3% is worthless. And as eBay had admit, this was a test.

Again, apparently the test was a success, as it's stayed that way for a year now. Every few months we've tried changes to confirm it, and sure enough, it's proven to be true.

There's a number of sellers who had contacted me over the last year as a result of that post. They ask for advice, and all I have to tell them is to NOT allow eBay to set the peer rates, and test each percentage, raising 1% at a time until they find what works in their category. And once you find that number, you must base your sales strategy around that percentage, or else you will lose a large amount of impressions/sales/visibility.

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@zamo-zuan my graph as of today - but keep in mind, I haven't been adding new items in week and half or so now, everything I had "added" are not really new items, just relisted them. The algorithm def favors activity and your spikes will come the more you add items consistently. @mr_lincoln noticed that when compared our previous graphs that spikes would happen on the very same exact days, totally different sellers, totally different items, in totally different categories yet the spike increases happen exactly the same times. 

 

[zamo-zuan]

So when I tried to help other sellers who used the "suggested rates", it has had a 100% rate of not resolving the problem. Recommending they set manual rates has resolved it. So I would not trust eBay's suggested rates as it has led to lower performance.

I did a quick image edit of our current graph with last years:

Now lets look at the numbers. Organic slightly lower this year, which makes sense as Covid traffic increased in our category last year.

But looking at the promoted impressions, last year when the "test" began, we were basically limited at 40k impressions. UNTIL we went to 4%. Once we did that, our impressions went back to normal.

Now we had just dropped to 2% last week (as shown in the graph on top). If we look at the promotion impressions, what's the number we're at?

40k.

Just a coincidence? Highly doubtful. It seems they're using the same algorithms that they started on Sep of 2020 in our category.

@nuclearomen , in your case if lower rates are still working/not losing impressions, I would guess that your category is still on the older algorithms. But it seems they're spreading this activity to more and more categories, so I would keep an eye on your promo impressions. If they suddenly drop like you see in our case, you might have to test higher rates to see if that will dig you out of the hole!

For others that are facing this sudden drop now, that's the same advice I give you. Don't let eBay set the rates, try at 1% and then raise 1% at a time until you see impressions return. And if this works out for you, please post the percentage that you had to set it to here to see if it might assist others!

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@katzrul15 wrote:

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This is what we are experiencing as well.  I had nothing above 2% and most at 1-1.5%.  Hit a brick wall more than 10 days ago on sales.  

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Welcome to the new algorithms. I'm sorry you had to join us 😞

[mr_lincoln]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@iamonourside wrote:

One can no longer argue that PLS provides a leg-up to poor quality sellers. eBay stopped giving "sponsored" spots aka promoted spots to a listing based on its relative promotional ad rate a long, long time ago, if they ever did.

That is another reason it makes no sense to give away a promotional ad rate of more than 1%. Now, a promoted listing competes against all the other promoted listings for promoted spots by the same criteria as determines your listing's spot in organic search results.

That is, the promoted ad rate makes no difference in the visibility of your promoted listing.

That is why, as reported by many, I see pay off from promoting at a 1% ad rate, and no change in outcomes, just a gift to eBay , to set any higher ad rate. 

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This isn't accurate, and depends on category.

If we go 1% ad rate, we're get basically nothing. And if you're under the specific rate for your category, you will get almost nothing.

In our categories, if you're under 3-4%, you'll get a fraction of the traffic. A difference of 1% is huge.

And it's definitely not based on peers because you can see who the competitors are, and many of them are companies that we partner with and do not invest more than us.

With that said, we attempted less than 3-4%, and now we're having the same problems as others here: 

You can see the exact date we changed. And you can see that a current setting of 2% is worthless. As I mentioned, if you have your PL below a certain percentage, you'll get the amount of PL impressions we're currently getting. If you have it at or above a certain percentage, you'll get a "normal" amount of impressions.

See the low bar we have now? It'll stay that way at 1, 2, or even 3% depending on category.

See the top bar? It'll stay that way at 3, 4, 5% or more, depending on category.

Higher investment does not bring you above the top bar.

Lower investment does not bring you below the bottom bar.

Based on our results of testing (in our categories, at least) there's effectively 2 levels. "Too low" and "up to par". 

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@zamo-zuan   Too bad Sellers can not see the total Category count on our items.  Meaning, how many items are actually IN the category we are advertising in.  My graph covers a 30 day period and as previously mentioned, I ignore eBay's suggestions (no surprise there, right?!?) and use between 5% and 10% ad rates ... this one was 5% on the bulk and then 6% on items I added during the Campaign.

[nuclearomen]

@zamo-zuan snippet of my excel books for column i record sales that happen on Promotional Listings for this current month

[glasser]

Lot of replies her can't read them all so apologize if repetitive.  Obviously, depending on price, pay per conversion is what most people want (the way promoted listings work now).  I think this new system is step one toward having buyers actually pay for keywords on other sites like Google and Facebook that eBay now pays for. They 100's of millions of dollars with Google every year . If they could move that cost to sellers the stockholders would win.

I sell mostly auctions so PL not often used by me. However, what bugs me is how far this moves eBay off its original vision. We should not be competing against each other on based on who pays for promotions or clicks. It should be based on how well we write titles and descriptions, price, customer service, etc. eBay was conceived as a level playing field. We shouldn't have to pay for a service--better search results--that we can get through competition.

Do we really know the algorithm that yields better results? I have been looking at my traffic reports a lot lately and playing around with marketing my eBay items off eBay on my own. I sell antiques and collectibles.  I have joined FB groups that allow posting of sales. I have one item now where I have generated 50/50 page views on and off eBay for free. Before I paid eBay pay per click, I'd seriously look into similar costs on Facebook or Google. Will eBay's pay per click come with targeting? or is just based on the most basic of keyword searches? If I sold auto parts, I would want to be sure that my listing was seen by someone who owned the type of car I had parts for. Not someone who did a more generic search.  You join a Ford group on Facebook and if the group rules allow you could post items there.

Marketing against each other on the same platform seems like a fools errand.

[zamo-zuan]

I found an image showing the results from last year when we switched to 4%:

As you could see, it happens to go to the EXACT level of promoted impressions as we had before the "test". No more, no less.

The only difference is what we used to get at 1%, now we have to pay 4% for. Or else we drop.

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@glasser wrote:

Do we really know the algorithm that yields better results?

...

Marketing against each other on the same platform seems like a fools errand.

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That is part of the issue with PPC for eBay. Their search is already inaccurate/untrusted. Now you must have faith that they will focus YOUR MONEY towards the right types of buyers. When we can't even trust our items to show up correctly to begin with.

It's been 2+ years that we reported the error with vehicle fitment - where it often times is bugged and says your item DOES NOT FIT vehicles that are on the compatibility list!!!

And yes, marketing against each other is a fools errand. It doesn't even make sense in how eBay is designed. EBay gets much higher impressions but lower conversion rates than you would get on Google. It's AI isn't nearly as smart as Googles, and eBay is not nearly as transparent as Google. If Google does not include your item in it's marketing, it gives you a specific, exact reason, and allows you to repair it to get your item to show up again.

But the sad part is, as I've mentioned in the above examples in this thread, eBay tweaks things to where you will only get a fraction of the visibility you got before unless you invest in their PL. Sure, they can "technically" claim it's "optional". But if you want to get sales and you don't conform to paying eBay, you will be shooting your own business in the foot. 

[flyingmvp]

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@glasser wrote:

Marketing against each other on the same platform seems like a fools errand.

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That's what Ebay leadership is all about, Penny wise pound Foolish... short term gains at the cost of failing and falling future of Ebay.

The FB sellers groups have become even more relevant for some of our items as well, can't thank FB  enough for The Classic VW Beetle Buy, Sell, Trade and Swap Meet, similar BMW E39 and Cherolet PPV groups and more.

Did there great, hopefully will do in the future (mic drop)

[glasser]

@zamo-zuan interesting data. I really believe most sellers if the pay attention can get good search results on eBay. I sell using auctions no reserve and my sense is that they get pushed up results even if eBay doesn't particularly favor auctions these days. Of course a lot of items not suitable to auctions.

eBay has exacerbated all of this by its listing policies. There are too many listings that hang around for too long. With some many duplicative listings it makes it harder to find stuff and therefore sellers inclined to pay for people to find their stuff. BIN until canceled with no listing fee is an invitation to an oversaturated market giving consumers to many choices and making it hard to decide. I know this runs contrary to they way most people think, but actually having real listing fees instead of gazillions of free listings would probably clean up a lot of markets. If you owned a bricks and mortar store (and maybe you do 🙂 ), how long would you let you something collect dust before you are like hey we are paying for that shelf space and that's dead wood.

eBay should be spending more money driving buyers and especially new buyers to the site. They should be showing potential buyers the benefits of buying eBay. 

[nuclearomen]

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@glasser wrote:

@zamo-zuan interesting data. I really believe most sellers if the pay attention can get good search results on eBay. I sell using auctions no reserve and my sense is that they get pushed up results even if eBay doesn't particularly favor auctions these days. Of course a lot of items not suitable to auctions.

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just wait for PLA Auctions ...if not already released...it's coming.

[katzrul15]

@nuclearomen

And what a disaster that will be!