eBay

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-20-2017

As of October 19th, 2017, we have expanded the existing Structured Data mandate to require product identifiers on newly created listings using the 'Seller Refurbished' condition. As per usual, if the item you are selling is custom made, or if a Global Trade Item Number (UPC, EAN, ISBN) was not issued by the manufacturer, Does Not Apply is an acceptable alternative to use in the drop-down field.

To learn more about product identification requirements, please visit ebay.com/requiredidentifiers.

If you have questions about this policy change, please ask them below. Additionally, feel free to share any product identification best practices you have come across as you have listed Seller Refurbished items on the site.

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@dande2016 wrote:

Okay, first it was a double post then it disappearred so here it is again:

When searching for a shirt today I noticed under some listings it states for example 2 new and refurbished found for a much cheaper price. Example of what I seen $19.99 with Free shipping New with tag shirt below:

1. The blue link stated 2 new and refurbished starting at $14.99. When I clicked on that link it showed one that was new for $14.99 but it had a shipping price of $6.00 therefore it is not cheaper it is actually more expensive. Therefore punishing the free shipper saying that one that is actually more expensive is cheaper.

2. The other was a "refurbished" USED shirt for $14.99 plus $3.00 shipping. How do you compare a NWT shirt for $19.99 with free shipping to a used shirt that is only $2 less?

3. How can used clothing be considered refurbished?????

I'll pass this along to our product team. Used items shouldn't be displayed as refurbished in product based shopping experiences.

Thank you.

dhbookds · ‎10-24-2017

appreciate the feedback. This highlights one of the topics we are discussing internally around condition. At the very least, I think that we need to be more thoughtful around our defintions. Otherwise we run the risk of confusing our buyers.

I'll pass your insights on to our team internally.

Thank you.

No Kidding? lol yep, refurbished diapers could be confusing to buyers...... why was it not confusing to those you wrote the condition?

REAL question is HOW did that term come to be "chosen" on those listings????? No way did a seller chose it........what criteria did ebay chose that applied to THOSE listings, since not all "diaper" listings had the term applied.

AND is a correction being done????

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@dhbookds wrote:

Certainly glad you posted this, since I have had a week of messages to one of the Structured Data offices about it.

This search:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Kiwi+Cleaner&_sacat=0

is a seach on a shoe cleaner which, on some listings, as you can see, shows New & refurbished.....which is totally ridiculous........how can you refurbish a bottle of shoe cleaner? The replies from the SD team have been such that it's pretty obvious they don't comphrehend the meaning of refurbished.....as they keep telling me the terms are new and used......despite the fact I've sent the search 3 times. I finally sent definitions of refurbished and used, and now supposedly they are referring it somewhere, perhaps the trash can.

I cannot imagine a seller choosing "refurbished" for these items......and think the search may be equating refurbished for new...other....

It flat makes ebay look stupid..........

A number of folks have now highlighted where the search/view item pages are erroneously displaying refurbished as an available condition.

I have forwarded your examples on to the team.

Thanks for everyone's help.

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@dande2016 wrote:

After searching for items this morning, I see that ebay has decided to drop the New and Refurbished links that were on many items yesterday. At least I can't find them on the items I seen them on yesterday. Not seeing refurbished diapers or TP anymore either.

Anyone still seeing them?

I am continuing to forward these examples to the appropriate team. You should be seeing less of them as you search the site.

Thanks.

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@dhbookds wrote:

Well, since

@long_live_the_seller

has not acknowledged the problem, perhaps we should call his/her, the staff's attention to them.

The examples have been forwarded to the appropriate team.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@dande2016 wrote:

@dhbookds wrote:

Well, since

@long_live_the_seller

has not acknowledged the problem, perhaps we should call his/her, the staff's attention to them.

Did I miss a response from ebay somewhere?

I am still seeing refurbished diapers, clothes, etc.

There are a number of outstanding issues our developers are working on to address the issue entirely. You should be seeing these examples less and less as code is corrected.

Thank you.

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@lookng2015 wrote:

@coolections wrote:

@lookng2015 wrote:
You know the sad and ironic thing is - Amazon uses this same type of thing (except theirs is titled new & used) - BUT - they ALSO split up the results into (gasp) new & used. There's a tab for each.

eBay? Nah.........just chuck them all onto the same page so the buyer hasn't a clue which is new & which isn't. Way to 'comparison shop' indeed.

@lookng2015

On every search to the left of the page is the same thing you where hoping Ebay would do. They must have listened to you because they put a button for new, and a button for used so buyers can choose which they prefer.

So it's MY fault that on AMZON it's right up front but on eBay I have to look to the left/to the right etc etc to find the filter?

Tell me cool, is there ANYthing eBay does that you don't agree with? Just curious.

You have shared some interesting ideas around product page layout. Our search team is regularly testing design variations. I will pass your insights along.

Thank you.

dtexley3 · ‎10-24-2017

@long_live_the_seller wrote:
@dhbookds wrote:
Well, since

@long_live_the_seller

has not acknowledged the problem, perhaps we should call his/her, the staff's attention to them.
The examples have been forwarded to the appropriate team.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

One at a time? Send in examples one at a time? You developers should be able to search the code for the term "refurbished" and send it to someone competent to review whether or not the usage is correct. It really offends me that eBay expects the Sellers to be their QA team. Not. My. Job.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

long_live_the_seller · ‎10-24-2017

@dhbookds wrote:

appreciate the feedback. This highlights one of the topics we are discussing internally around condition. At the very least, I think that we need to be more thoughtful around our defintions. Otherwise we run the risk of confusing our buyers.

I'll pass your insights on to our team internally.

Thank you.

No Kidding? lol yep, refurbished diapers could be confusing to buyers...... why was it not confusing to those you wrote the condition?

REAL question is HOW did that term come to be "chosen" on those listings????? No way did a seller chose it........what criteria did ebay chose that applied to THOSE listings, since not all "diaper" listings had the term applied.

AND is a correction being done????

To be clear, the issue of 'refurbished disposables' being highlighted in this topic has more to do with the erroneous language being used in the view item treatment to advertise available products than with what is actually being listed. This issue is being worked on by our developers.

In the broader context of defining what new, used, and refurbished should be, there are also active conversations around how we can make the values more easily understood. This, in an effort to remove the guess work from both buying and selling experiences.

Thanks again.

sharingtheland · ‎10-24-2017

Used items shouldn't be displayed as refurbished in product based shopping experiences.

I'm assuming you've read this entire thread and you know that "Refurbished" is being shown with New items, not just Used.

Thanks for taking the time to get back to us.

Sherry

=^.^= =^.^=
( ) ( )
" " =^.^= " "

tev4all · ‎10-24-2017

@long_live_the_seller wrote:
@dhbookds wrote:
appreciate the feedback. This highlights one of the topics we are discussing internally around condition. At the very least, I think that we need to be more thoughtful around our defintions. Otherwise we run the risk of confusing our buyers.

I'll pass your insights on to our team internally.

Thank you.

No Kidding? lol yep, refurbished diapers could be confusing to buyers...... why was it not confusing to those you wrote the condition?

REAL question is HOW did that term come to be "chosen" on those listings????? No way did a seller chose it........what criteria did ebay chose that applied to THOSE listings, since not all "diaper" listings had the term applied.

AND is a correction being done????

To be clear, the issue of refurbished disposables' being highlighted in this topic has more to do with the erroneous language being used in the view item treatment to advertise available products than with what is actually being listed. This issue is being worked on by our developers.

In the broader context of defining what new, used, and refurbished should be, there are also active conversations around how we can make the values more easily understood. This, in an effort to remove the guess work from both buying and selling experiences.

Thanks again.

In a narrower context of defining new, used, and refurbished should be, There should be one way to take the guess work out for both buying and selling experiences.

The item listed is New or Not New.

A buyer looking for a refurbished item, is looking for an item that is Not New.

ebay needs to curb the "help" that is not helping the buyer/seller/ebay programmers remove the guess work.

a_c_green · ‎10-24-2017

@long_live_the_seller wrote:
@dande2016 wrote:
Not seeing refurbished diapers or TP anymore either.
Anyone still seeing them?
I am continuing to forward these examples to the appropriate team. You should be seeing less of them as you search the site.

@long_live_the_seller: Let me take a Meta view of this for just a moment here:

Why do you need to forward these examples in the first place? Why is the appropriate team not simply looking around for themselves, and/or being pointed directly to a forum such as this group where the first evaluations are coming in? Why is no one from the coding area actually talking to anyone on the user side?

Speaking as a Tech Support and QA person myself, I get the distinct impression that the people doing your coding are not familiar with the English language, so for example, they may not immediately grasp the ridiculous connotation of a "refurbished" diaper, among all the other horrendous goofups already reported. Back on Day 2 of the "Refurbishing" project, someone should have immediately started coding and compiling a means of handling exceptions: categories that could not, by definition, carry a "Refurbished" status. Instead, it seems like there was an OMG moment that occurred after release of the Beta, requiring a mad scramble to retrofit a solution.

I get the feeling that someone on your side of the wall is imposing way too tight a restriction on letting your coding people come out and actually see how their code is used. For example:

How many of the people writing your code, percentage-wise, would you estimate are actually selling on this site?
What percentage of the people testing the code before release (i.e. not the code authors, but the QA people doing the testing and Peer Review before release) would describe themselves as knowledgeable sellers?
Is there a rollback procedure in place for times like this, when a release goes into Production use and promptly starts offering refurbished condoms to baffled buyers?
Is there any forum either on eBay or elsewhere (e.g. stackoverflow.com) where eBay developers are allowed to come out and have a dialogue with users?

It's becoming more and more important these days, given the complexity that eBay wants to apply to our listings, to have a knowledgeable team developing your code. It's not a matter of reporting back all the time; it's a matter of getting them up to speed themselves, and making sure that they become familiar with how the selling process operates before they start trying to revise it.

dhbookds · ‎10-24-2017

To be clear, the issue of 'refurbished disposables' being highlighted in this topic has more to do with the erroneous language being used in the view item treatment to advertise available products than with what is actually being listed. This issue is being worked on by our developers.

In the broader context of defining what new, used, and refurbished should be, there are also active conversations around how we can make the values more easily understood. This, in an effort to remove the guess work from both buying and selling experiences.

lol, so the definition of refurbished IS the problem....... just my opinion, but to me NO ONE except the seller can decide if the item is refurbished....so for developers to apply the word indiscriminately, or at least on some unknown basis, on the view page.....reflects to me that the problem is not only with the developers but with whomever approves the product of the developers to be used. Hopefully Bob Kupens (sp?), Brian Burke, et al are made aware of it.

You can fix THIS problem, but this type of problem will continue to happen, like so many other problems in the last few months, until someone actually takes charge of thinking thru the ramifications of what IS developed BEFORE it's approved. If the idea was to make "used" more attractive, which is what I believe was in the view page before, it's an enhancement gone astray......as is the Ask the Question on the product page and the IPR on the $1000 or below. You've done those things, someone obviously approved them and is probably still defending them. But you are now finding out the problems and don't know what to do next or even acknowledge the problems...which of course aggravates sellers who have to deal with this no end.

end rant

the_fancy_fox · ‎10-24-2017

@a_c_green wrote:
@long_live_the_seller wrote:
@dande2016 wrote:
Not seeing refurbished diapers or TP anymore either.
Anyone still seeing them?
I am continuing to forward these examples to the appropriate team. You should be seeing less of them as you search the site.
@long_live_the_seller: Let me take a Meta view of this for just a moment here:

Why do you need to forward these examples in the first place? Why is the appropriate team not simply looking around for themselves, and/or being pointed directly to a forum such as this group where the first evaluations are coming in? Why is no one from the coding area actually talking to anyone on the user side?

Speaking as a Tech Support and QA person myself, I get the distinct impression that the people doing your coding are not familiar with the English language, so for example, they may not immediately grasp the ridiculous connotation of a "refurbished" diaper, among all the other horrendous goofups already reported. Back on Day 2 of the "Refurbishing" project, someone should have immediately started coding and compiling a means of handling exceptions: categories that could not, by definition, carry a "Refurbished" status. Instead, it seems like there was an OMG moment that occurred after release of the Beta, requiring a mad scramble to retrofit a solution.

I get the feeling that someone on your side of the wall is imposing way too tight a restriction on letting your coding people come out and actually see how their code is used. For example:

How many of the people writing your code, percentage-wise, would you estimate are actually selling on this site?
What percentage of the people testing the code before release (i.e. not the code authors, but the QA people doing the testing and Peer Review before release) would describe themselves as knowledgeable sellers?
Is there a rollback procedure in place for times like this, when a release goes into Production use and promptly starts offering refurbished condoms to baffled buyers?
Is there any forum either on eBay or elsewhere (e.g. stackoverflow.com) where eBay developers are allowed to come out and have a dialogue with users?
It's becoming more and more important these days, given the complexity that eBay wants to apply to our listings, to have a knowledgeable team developing your code. It's not a matter of reporting back all the time; it's a matter of getting them up to speed themselves, and making sure that they become familiar with how the selling process operates before they start trying to revise it.

thank you! I wrote up a long post that just about mirrored yours then deleted it as I doubt they care.

in the corporate world I came from people would be fired over this one. That this change wasn't immediately pulled and prior coding restored till this mess could be reworked shows the world how out of control ebay corporate is.

As for the blues post on making the words more understood, English IS English. I suggest a few Websters around the office might help them.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

dhbookds · ‎10-24-2017

@a_c_green

Thanks, you said alot of things I didn't know how to say

alan@ebay

Since the thread is unpinned......and will soon fade away........could you bring to the attention of some people like BBurke/Bob K, etc.... Bburke said Bob was looking into this kind of stuff.......how it was happening and how it could be prevented.