Potential Scammer - Help with buyer requested MBG return on MacBook Air M1

[madbra-3893]

Hello!

I recently started selling things on eBay and, after talking about my great experiences with my sister, she asked me to sell her MacBook Air for her. Using a clear description and detailed photos, I listed it at a fair price with ad promotion and it sold in less than 12 hours! There were a couple of things that seemed odd about the transaction (zero feedback, address formatted strangely with house number in Line 2, buyer using only an initial for their last name) but we exchanged a few messages to confirm shipping address and availability for signature-on-delivery before I shipped it out and went about my merry day.

I packaged the MBA in its original box, inserted that into an oversized air cushion sleeve for shipping laptops, then added bundles of 1/2” bubble wrap to all 6 sides of the item so that it didn’t shift around inside the box too much. 

Package is signed for at 7:09 PM, and I get an eBay Money Back Guarantee Return Request at 7:56 PM. Buyer states “Merry Christmas. Hope you’re doing well. Unfortunately, my screen came damaged. It’s very bad weather over here in the north east, the package was kinda damp. I don’t know if it’s liquid damage or not but i took it to the Apple Store to reset it and they said there’s no warranty on it which I thought it did”

Original listing here

Buyer photos here

AppleCare+ status here

What strikes me as “off” about the situation is that the buyer claims to have received their package, opened it, taken it to an Apple Store (3 nights before Christmas) and then taken it back home to photograph and report within a 45-min time frame. I also did a quick S/N search to make sure that removing the MacBook from FindMy didn’t cancel AC+, and it’s 100% covered still. Looking at the photos that buyer sent, it looks like the finger slot for opening the MacBook on the photo of the bottom of the case has a dent in it. My fear is that the buyer plans to ship back a different MBA in the box and I’m going to have to explain to my disabled sister that I lost her laptop to a scammer. 

I shipped via UPS Ground purchased through eBay and purchased insurance for full sale price. Does anyone have guidance for how I should approach this? I’m sorry if this is too long of a read. Just very nervous because I’ve only sold a few things on eBay and don’t really understand how this whole process works. I haven’t responded to the buyer yet. 

[ittybitnot]

I spoke with the buyer, approved the return, issued an eBay return label and then got a notice a couple of hours later that a case had been opened and immediately closed with a full refund to the buyer.

@madbra-3893 

Was there any indication of what the case that had been opened and immediately closed was for? Was it an eBay claim or Payment Dispute?  Anything in your case history?  Was YOUR money taken for the refund? 

[madbra-3893]

Was there any indication of what the case that had been opened and immediately closed was for?

Not that I can find. Attaching screenshots of the information available to me. The refund was taken from my account and they are back charging me $181.73 for eBay fees, ad promotion fees and shipping both ways. I went ahead and sent a message to the eBay Facebook page, as suggested by @ckimodog and linked this post requesting assistance. 

 

 

 

 

[ittybitnot]

@madbra-3893 

I am sorry, but I am used to using a computer and not familiar with the format used on a phone so it is taking a long time for me to try and figure this out. 

Do you know the difference between an eBay case/claim (aka return request) and a Payment Dispute (aka chargeback)?  i.e. the 'appearance' or 'wording'? 

The part about "you agreed to give the buyer a refund and didn't do it" sounds like something out of a "Payment Dispute" AKA chargeback.  I have seen that reason used before, but NOT for any eBay claim.  It was a choice for a buyer who is doing a c.card chargeback.  That doesn't negate the idea that  eBay decided to use that reason or wording today.  

Yet, you don't have any notice of the case being "open" in the first place (which would normally give you an option to reply).  There are no "time stamps" for the opening / closing of the case other than 12/23.    Was there notice of a "return request" aka ebay case/claim for this item that caused you to accept the return?  

Accepting a Payment Dispute (aka Chargeback) refunds the buyer and allows them to keep the product. 

It says you accepted the return, and issued an RMA number, which suggests a return is involved.  It says nothing about issuing a return label. Is there any notice that you issued the label?  Can you see the label anywhere?   For a Payment Dispute, there is no option to issue a label as there would be with an eBay claim.   There is an option to accept the case and issue a refund.  There is no option on a payment dispute to require a return or issue a label.   There is an option to accept the return request and issue a label with an eBay claim. 

This is a confusing mess to be sure.  

We need someone who uses the Seller Hub on their phone here to direct you where to look for your claims/disputes, etc. , and that is not me.  Hang in there.  

Someone will be by.  You can use the blue message button on the page linked upthread by @ckimodog on Tuesday.   

Do let us know what you find out about this.

BTW your buyer has ZERO feedback and was registered Dec. 7 2023
What did google show is located at the buyer's address? 

[isaiah53-57]

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@madbra-3893 wrote:

Hello!

I recently started selling things on eBay and, after talking about my great experiences with my sister, she asked me to sell her MacBook Air for her. Using a clear description and detailed photos, I listed it at a fair price with ad promotion and it sold in less than 12 hours! (zero feedback, address formatted strangely with house number in Line 2, buyer using only an initial for their last name)...

I packaged the MBA in its original box, inserted that into an oversized air cushion sleeve for shipping laptops, then added bundles of 1/2” bubble wrap to all 6 sides of the item so that it didn’t shift around inside the box too much...

...Package is signed for at 7:09 PM, and I get an eBay Money Back Guarantee Return Request at 7:56 PM. Buyer states “Merry Christmas. Hope you’re doing well. Unfortunately, my screen came damaged. It’s very bad weather over here in the north east, the package was kinda damp. I don’t know if it’s liquid damage or not but i took it to the Apple Store to reset it and they said there’s no warranty on it which I thought it did”...

...What strikes me as “off” about the situation is that the buyer claims to have received their package, opened it, taken it to an Apple Store (3 nights before Christmas) and then taken it back home to photograph and report within a 45-min time frame. I also did a quick S/N search to make sure that removing the MacBook from FindMy didn’t cancel AC+, and it’s 100% covered still. Looking at the photos that buyer sent, it looks like the finger slot for opening the MacBook on the photo of the bottom of the case has a dent in it. My fear is that the buyer plans to ship back a different MBA in the box and I’m going to have to explain to my disabled sister that I lost her laptop to a scammer. 

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I see people trying to offer "helpful" bits of information that make it appear like ebay cares and has options for you - In my opinion, there is little to zero doubt you are being scammed and its been that way right from the start of this sale-gone-wrong like so many others here - What you need to do now is begin to take control of this situation - Document everything carefully and use that information to file police reports, Post Office fraud reports and IC3 fraud reports and use that information to attempt to get your money back from the company that facilitated this sale.

You are most likely going to get back something you didn't send, or nothing at all, meaning they sent something to your zip code, but not to you - That being the case, get all the information you can from the post office regarding where the item was returned using the tracking information - Again, document everything for use in filing criminal reports against the buyer - This is a crime though most here likes to look at it like a "cost of doing business". Utilize Social Media to contact ebay for help or to get your story out if you are not having luck at first... Best of luck to you...

From our experience with similar situations, doesnt seem like much is being done to curtail this type of situation. Our biggest loss that we eventually recovered, started with a buyer blatantly ripping us off and ebay siding with them to our amazement - We couldnt stand for that, so we decided to make sure as many reports were filed against this buyer as possible to get them booted off the site - Silly us for thinking a buyer, even a blatantly criminal one, could get booted - What we found was a years worth of false positive feedback from sellers complaining about the same type of theft we experienced. After reaching out to sellers to ask them to file reports, we found there were AT LEAST 10 over the previous 90 days who had already reported this buyer and another 5 or 6 who said they were going to after our contact...Guess what ...Fast forward 4 or 5 months down the road and there they were, still buying and ripping people off with impunity...For all we know they are still at it..

[madbra-3893]

Following the advice given by @ckimodog to reach out to the eBay For Business Facebook team resulted in a quick and supportive response from an agent. I gave a short explanation, linked this thread for details, and noted that it appears the Buyer may have done this to another Seller for the exact same item a few days before they purchased mine. Thanks for your tip on the new user feedback loophole @ittybitnot!

She swiftly but thoroughly investigated and then gave me a detailed summary of what she found. Here is what she said:

“This is an interesting one, for sure. Normally, I'd say that we'd want to have you go through UPS to file a claim with them before we proceed to an appeal, but that won't be necessary here. Of course you're still welcome to follow up with them on it, but we're going to get you taken care of.

The return was just opened yesterday, and we give all sellers 3 full business days to resolve any issues before we can step in on a claim. However, I see someone escalated the claim earlier today and pushed through a full refund without any notes as to why. This isn't how we're supposed to handle claims, so I've sent off the appropriate coachings to ensure this doesn't happen again.

With that, I'm happy to let you know I've processed a full appeal for this case. This will protect you from any defects or negative neutral feedback, as well as refund you the full amount. Please keep in mind your appeal may take up to 24-48 hours to process and your refund can take a day or two longer (although it's usually much faster). Here within the hour you should receive a confirmation email regarding your appeal, and you're all set! There's nothing else you need to do, but again, if you want to follow up with UPS, that's totally up to you. We truly appreciate all of your hard work, Madison, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday season! ~Paige”

I’m immensely grateful and I wish that I could give everyone an award for how helpful all of you were with this whole situation. I’m fortunate in this resolution, but it’s sad to see that so many sellers get treated in the way that @isaiah53-57 described. Honestly, one can’t help but wonder if there may be some bad apples at eBay involved in some of these MBG scams. Why would eBay care when they get paid either way? 

All things considered, I’m more than satisfied with the company’s response and feel supported by the platform for now. Going to enjoy the holidays with my family, free from this burden, and afterwards, I’ll refresh my sales practices with all of the valuable pointers that I learned from you here today. Wishing you all a happy holiday season!

[vintagecraze50]

The only protection you have on here if scamming buyer sends back different item is to deduct 50 percent off the refund. You can do this if you offer free returns. However, if scamming buyer is persistent they will do a credit card chargeback for the rest of the funds. Laptops, and cell phones are very high scam items on here and always have been. My advice, do not sell them here. Sell them locally.

[ittybitnot]

@madbra-3893 

Glad this worked out, and thanks for the update. 

Happy holidays!

[ckimodog]

@madbra-3893 

So very happy for you.  Enjoy your holidays! 

Mele Kalikimaka

[junkinabox]

These are your options :

-Accept the return.

-Send a label and once you receive it, refund in full. eBay will refund the fees.

-Refund the buyer now and eBay will refund the fees. You will not get the item back but do not have to pay return shipping.

-Or do nothing, eBay will refund the buyer and allow them to keep the item. You will most probably get a negative fb. eBay will keep all fees and give you a seller defect.

[ittybitnot]

The odd thing is, after accepting the return and choosing the eBay provided return label, they defaulted to FedEx return shipping. Is that normal?

@madbra-3893 

I think they  are not supposed to, but they do.   

@wastingtime101 

[wastingtime101]

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@madbra-3893 wrote:

The odd thing is, after accepting the return and choosing the eBay provided return label, they defaulted to FedEx return shipping. Is that normal? I assumed that they would use the same carrier that I chose for original shipping. 

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It's not "normal". eBay has been testing FedEx return labels for a small group of sellers for approx a year. It's caused a lot of problems

The "normal" option is USPS return label exclusively, regardless of the original carrier.

That said, this specific return case was resolved over a month ago and @junkinabox has bumped the discussion for seemingly no reason. They are doing that a lot lately, along with copy/pasting other posters posts - again, seemingly for no reason. Very odd.

Thanks for the tag @ittybitnot .