Phony return request: buyer says new factory sealed $500 item is used and wants to return for refund

[lifeguard-guy]

Okay guys (and gals) I really, really need your advice/help on this one. It's a biggie for me and if I lose then I probably won't be able to pay my rent next month.

Forgive me for being wordy but I want to get all the info out so you completely understand the situation.

A new ebayer (they registered the same day as purchase -- so zero feedback) bought a brand new, factory sealed, never opened, never used $500 printer from me. I know it's brand new and factory sealed because I'm the one who originally bought it.

They received the printer 2 weeks ago and today I got a message from the buyer saying....

..."I would like to return this item. It is not new. The ink is not sealed and came inside printed. It is missing cables and the printer does not print"...

All of which of course is completely untrue.

The return request message from ebay said...

..."(buyer ID) let us know that something is wrong with BRAND NEW IN SEALED BOX - Epson Artisan 50 Photo Inkjet Printer. As a result, they requested to return the item for a refund.

See request details and be sure to reply to the buyer by Jul 12, 2018. Note that if you accept a return, you'll be charged for return shipping. Starting on that day, the buyer could ask us to step in and help by opening a case - this can affect your seller level"....

Under request details it said...

...."Info from the buyer -- Reason: Doesn't work or defective -- Comments: Not new. Missing cables. Ink cartridges were inside printer and not sealed. Does not print"....

I absolutely, 100% know this is a scam.

And it gets worse: I live in Canada and the buyer in the United States.

I sold it for $500 with free shipping. The cost to ship it was approx. $100. If I have to refund them I'm out $500 plus the $100 I paid to ship it = $600). If I pay to have it returned (another $100) I'll be out $700.

If I tried to sell it again the resale value drops by 50% since it's been opened and used. So I could maybe resell it for $250..... maybe.

As soon as I got the message from the buyer today I sent them this message thru the respond to return request: "Thanks for your email - not to sound rude but none of the things you claim are possible. It was brand new and factory sealed, never opened. I know because I'm the one who bought it originally."

And then I wrote the post you’re reading right now

So, what do I do?

In the return request message from ebay it said: "You can ask us to step in and help if there's a problem with the buyer's request."

What does that mean? And how would I proceed with that?... do I tell ebay the same story I've just told you? What are my options? Do I ask ebay to step in and help as mentioned above? I’d rather be proactive and ask ebay to step in before the buyer does, if that’s the best move…. I don’t know, you tell me.

I have pictures in my original listing showing the box sealed. Plus, as I was packing it to ship, I took more pictures showing the sealed condition of the box before packing it…. then pictures of the finished, wrapped, addressed parcel.

I then sent these pre/post packing photos to the buyer the same day I shipped it, as attachments to a “contact buyer” message thru ebay.

I've been selling on ebay for many years and the money I make forms a large portion of my income. I've got a 100% feedback and 4.9 to 5 star ratings.

I absolutely cannot take this hit and if I do I'll likely stop selling on ebay.

Please help!

Thank you in advance.

[slippinjimmy]

If you bought it sealed and you never opened it you have no way of knowing if what the buyer claims is true or not.

Any chance this was a "refurbished" item? Factory refurbs are usually complete and packed properly but not always. How "legit" was your source for this item? Even retailers like Best Buy are known to "refurb" open stock items and they are usually done by some minimum wage slug in the back room.

By the way..."factory sealed"...doesn't mean much, pretty easy to reseal a box even if it requires special tape.

The only 100% thing you should know is if the buyer escalates the claim you WILL be refunding and you WILL be paying return shipping.

[ersatz_sobriquet]

---

@slippinjimmy wrote:

The only 100% thing you should know is if the buyer escalates the claim you WILL be refunding and you WILL be paying return shipping.

---

That's not the way ebay works. The way ebay works is--if the buyer states an item is defective you WILL be refunding and you WILL be paying return shipping. Whether or not the buyer escalates makes no difference, the outcome is the same regardless. The only other option ebay allows is to refund the buyer without asking for the item to be returned.

In otherwords, the seller has no choices at all besides giving their item away. 

So OP, you have one choice, and that is to pay for the return shipping. You then inspect whatever it  is you get back, you can then report the buyer for scamming you, and ebay files that little tidbit away in some dark dusty corner of their server room most likely never to be noticed again. 

[femmefan1946]

Either it works, and the buyer is trying to scam you into not allowing the return, knowing he will get a refund,

Or

the buyer is right and the machine doesn't work.

If it's the second, well, we've all had transactions go bad through no fault of our own.

If it's the first-- you came to the wrong Board.

You are in Canada -- you should have gone to the eBayCanada Boards.

We can tell you the latest way of messing up the "keep the money and the item" scam for Canadians.

Until recently, we couldn't access USPS return shipping labels. Our only option was to Send Money through Paypal and pray that the buyer wouldn't just keep that too.

But.

SHIPPO

has our back.

You can buy a USPS shipping label, send it to the buyer, and if he doesn't use it, he loses the Claim. And eventually you get the funds back from Shippo for the unused label.

You may even get a discount on the label price, if you work from the original Paypal payment.

So call him on the deal. Tell him to return the printer with all the instructions and in the original box for a full refund. And enclose the label as a pdf that he can print out.

I had a demand for a partial refund recently, for a fault that was declared in the title, and used this system to make the scammer go away. He didn't get to leave feedback either.  Mwah hah hah hah haaaa.

[pburn]

Here's my prediction:

Whether the seller uses a SHIPPO label or gets money for return shipping from the seller, the OP will indeed get the item returned to him/her. And here's what will be in the box: A printer with the ink not sealed and "came inside printed" (whatever that means). It will be missing cables, and the printer will not print.

In other words, the buyer will not return the same printer the OP sent. S/he'll return the broken one s/he was buying a replacement for, and s/he'll keep the OP's new one.

OP--be sure and come back to let us know how this particular scam turns out.

[n2knowledge]

There are two ways to look at this - I once bought a Brand New Shaver from a Ebay seller - it arrived in shrink wrap - but inside - the shaver was DEFINITELY USED - beard stubble was in the shaver and in the box - NO way was this BRAND new - Refurnished and never cleaned and wrapped up - BUT NOT NEW - and I had to fight back then for Ebay to believe me - NOPE never got any refund - and I have opened brand new items to find parts missing in a new and sealed computer software - lucky for me I was only two steps out of the store door and I opened them - they took a return.  I have had only a hand full of NEW stuff - not new or missing - so yes, it does happen.

Now if the buyer is a scammer - the only thing you can do is get the return and see if it is the same - in the US - don't talk to the agent that tells you to refund and then appeal - you will never get your money back for a product that is NOT yours and even has a different serial number.  In this case - I hate to tell you - you are screwed - somewhere in the Universe in a past life or this one - if you took advantage of a human or screwed anyone over - guess what - KARMA has set the record equal once again - it's an expensive lesson - one Ebay sellers tell newbies all the time - if you can't afford to lose it - DON'T SELL it - we have craigslist and other on-line get-togethers to sell high value or heavy stuff - ask for cash and no returns afterwards.

I am sorry this happened to you - I wish there were ways of saying it will turn out wonderful - but BEEN THERE - DONE THAT..........it's your price for experience and in 2018 it does NOT come cheap anymore.

[pburn]

---

@n2knowledge wrote:

There are two ways to look at this - I once bought a Brand New Shaver from a Ebay seller - it arrived in shrink wrap - but inside - the shaver was DEFINITELY USED - beard stubble was in the shaver and in the box - NO way was this BRAND new - Refurnished and never cleaned and wrapped up - BUT NOT NEW - and I had to fight back then for Ebay to believe me - NOPE never got any refund - and I have opened brand new items to find parts missing in a new and sealed computer software - lucky for me I was only two steps out of the store door and I opened them - they took a return.  I have had only a hand full of NEW stuff - not new or missing - so yes, it does happen.

Now if the buyer is a scammer - the only thing you can do is get the return and see if it is the same - in the US - don't talk to the agent that tells you to refund and then appeal - you will never get your money back for a product that is NOT yours and even has a different serial number.  In this case - I hate to tell you - you are screwed - somewhere in the Universe in a past life or this one - if you took advantage of a human or screwed anyone over - guess what - KARMA has set the record equal once again - it's an expensive lesson - one Ebay sellers tell newbies all the time - if you can't afford to lose it - DON'T SELL it - we have craigslist and other on-line get-togethers to sell high value or heavy stuff - ask for cash and no returns afterwards.

I am sorry this happened to you - I wish there were ways of saying it will turn out wonderful - but BEEN THERE - DONE THAT..........it's your price for experience and in 2018 it does NOT come cheap anymore.

---

You replied to me, but you do realize I'm not the original poster with the problem, right? I don't even sell on eBay. None of this happened to me.

I will remark on your "karma" comment, though. As a practicing Buddhist, I always find it disappointing when non-Buddhists blame karma when bad things happen to people. I have never read anyone on this discussion boards blame a sin that violates the ten commandments for getting scammed by someone on eBay. I find your comments like: "somewhere in the Universe in a past life or this one - if you took advantage of a human or screwed anyone over - guess what - KARMA has set the record equal once again" to be judgemental and insulting.

Especially since, as I said, I'm not even the original poster with the problem.

[mikeystoyz]

Good post, though you could quote the no stealing thing, the coveting thing and a couple of others and be within your rights 🙂

[artflorida1sl4]

I'm so sorry that you are going through this! I have been here for years and had very few returns... that is, until recently. I have had two that have cost me. Both appeared to be complete **bleep** by claiming the item is not as described with respect to the size and quantity. Both had the specs listed in at least two different locations in the listing and were completely accurate. I still got stuck with the loss, one of them not even returned to me. It seems that both of these people are using their cell phones and have no idea of how to use them. I honestly get questions from people who are asking about basic info that is all over the listings because they aren't opening the window that includes all of the item specifics. My items don't cost nearly what your's does in this example. I absolutely hate it for you. It seems there is no justice for the loss to sellers at the moment.

Normally I look forward to the chance to interact with customers by answering questions, but not so much now.

[missjen831]

---

@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:

---

@slippinjimmy wrote:

The only 100% thing you should know is if the buyer escalates the claim you WILL be refunding and you WILL be paying return shipping.

---

That's not the way ebay works. The way ebay works is--if the buyer states an item is defective you WILL be refunding and you WILL be paying return shipping. Whether or not the buyer escalates makes no difference, the outcome is the same regardless. The only other option ebay allows is to refund the buyer without asking for the item to be returned.

In otherwords, the seller has no choices at all besides giving their item away. 

So OP, you have one choice, and that is to pay for the return shipping. You then inspect whatever it  is you get back, you can then report the buyer for scamming you, and ebay files that little tidbit away in some dark dusty corner of their server room most likely never to be noticed again. 

---

Um yes. That is the way eBay works. If the seller ignores the request and the buyer doesn’t escalate aka ask eBay to step in, then there won’t be a refund. The request will close with no refund. That’s what the other responder was saying. The buyer can state whatever they want but they still have to escalate the request unless the seller accepts the return. 

[citysilkex]

Any expensive item should be listed with "Make an Offer" (increase your price a bit).  Then you can weed out those who have set up an account that day, have zero feedback, or they generally leave/receive bad feedback... you just don't accept their offer.  It has worked for me on a number of occasions.

[rainbowcolorz]

---

@pburn wrote:

---

@n2knowledge wrote:

There are two ways to look at this - I once bought a Brand New Shaver from a Ebay seller - it arrived in shrink wrap - but inside - the shaver was DEFINITELY USED - beard stubble was in the shaver and in the box - NO way was this BRAND new - Refurnished and never cleaned and wrapped up - BUT NOT NEW - and I had to fight back then for Ebay to believe me - NOPE never got any refund - and I have opened brand new items to find parts missing in a new and sealed computer software - lucky for me I was only two steps out of the store door and I opened them - they took a return.  I have had only a hand full of NEW stuff - not new or missing - so yes, it does happen.

Now if the buyer is a scammer - the only thing you can do is get the return and see if it is the same - in the US - don't talk to the agent that tells you to refund and then appeal - you will never get your money back for a product that is NOT yours and even has a different serial number.  In this case - I hate to tell you - you are screwed - somewhere in the Universe in a past life or this one - if you took advantage of a human or screwed anyone over - guess what - KARMA has set the record equal once again - it's an expensive lesson - one Ebay sellers tell newbies all the time - if you can't afford to lose it - DON'T SELL it - we have craigslist and other on-line get-togethers to sell high value or heavy stuff - ask for cash and no returns afterwards.

I am sorry this happened to you - I wish there were ways of saying it will turn out wonderful - but BEEN THERE - DONE THAT..........it's your price for experience and in 2018 it does NOT come cheap anymore.

---

You replied to me, but you do realize I'm not the original poster with the problem, right? I don't even sell on eBay. None of this happened to me.

I will remark on your "karma" comment, though. As a practicing Buddhist, I always find it disappointing when non-Buddhists blame karma when bad things happen to people. I have never read anyone on this discussion boards blame a sin that violates the ten commandments for getting scammed by someone on eBay. I find your comments like: "somewhere in the Universe in a past life or this one - if you took advantage of a human or screwed anyone over - guess what - KARMA has set the record equal once again" to be judgemental and insulting.

Especially since, as I said, I'm not even the original poster with the problem.

---

@pburn, I have respect for everyone's personal religious feelings/beliefs. 

However, I'm not entirely following your feelings regarding the word Karma. 

Also, how you would know the person commenting is non-Buddhist?  

KARMA: 

1. Hinduism, Buddhism. action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation: in Hinduism one of the means of reaching Brahman.
2. Theosophy. the cosmic principle according to which each person is rewarded or punished in one incarnation according to that person's deeds in the previous incarnation.
3. fate; destiny.

[kensgiftshop]

---

@lifeguard-guy wrote:
I know it's brand new and factory sealed because I'm the one who originally bought it.

---

Just because the package was sealed, doesn't mean it's new.

It could have been returned and the store just taped it up and sold it as new without checking it out.

Buyer could could have used it and had problems with it, put back in box, taped it up and taken it back to the store where you bought it new.

I know because it has happened to me a couple times.

Without looking inside the package, you don't know what was inside there.

[carlmarxx]

Since it is a international buyer  there is a good chance they don't want to pay their Vat tax on $500.00 .