Paying a 30% eBay fee on sold item.

[discofriend]

I am about to sell a vintage toy on eBay that I see sells for about $50.  Due to the size, it will also cost $50 to ship.

When it sells the 15% eBay feel will be calculated on both the sale price of the item ($50) and the shipping ($50), so $100.  

This means will be $15.  And this means that for your $50 item, you will net $35.

I believe it is unethical for eBay to charge sellers a fee on shipping.  Sellers do not receive the money for shipping, FedEx does.  Yet sellers pay a fee on it.

Ebay clearly can see and know this, but still will charge the seller the fee on shipping.

[dbfolks166mt]

Looking at this from your experienced vantage point, you can see the folly of doing this - I think the OP is showing how ridiculous the situation can be when selling an item of this nature and will likely not go on with the listing?

Problem is,(something people who defend ebay rarely mention given they cant see past their own experience) think of how many new or inexperienced buyers fall into this trap - The same trap they blindly fall into when they opt to use the Promoted Listing "SUGGESTED RATE" - Think about how many of these people DONT continue selling or buying here, feeling duped and disillusioned by their experience - Think about the bad word of mouth these same people are passing along...This is happening and in my opinion at an accelerated rate...

People can water down the numbers all they want, but when people sell here and they give up 25% to 40% or their ITEMS SELLING PRICE in fees, it does not behoove anyone: Not the buyers, the sellers, or even ebay in the long run...everyone loses in the long run...

     Again apples and oranges there is a difference between revenue from the total sale, selling expenses and profit/ROI. I have NEVER had the effective fees from any item I have sold on eBay exceed 16%. Selling expenses, both eBay and other, sure. But there is a difference. 

     It's also amazing how many sellers don't take into account ALL selling costs but I assume that reality rolls around at tax time if and when they do taxes. 

[wes-4507]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

Looking at this from your experienced vantage point, you can see the folly of doing this - I think the OP is showing how ridiculous the situation can be when selling an item of this nature and will likely not go on with the listing?

Problem is,(something people who defend ebay rarely mention given they cant see past their own experience) think of how many new or inexperienced buyers fall into this trap - The same trap they blindly fall into when they opt to use the Promoted Listing "SUGGESTED RATE" - Think about how many of these people DONT continue selling or buying here, feeling duped and disillusioned by their experience - Think about the bad word of mouth these same people are passing along...This is happening and in my opinion at an accelerated rate...

People can water down the numbers all they want, but when people sell here and they give up 25% to 40% or their ITEMS SELLING PRICE in fees, it does not behoove anyone: Not the buyers, the sellers, or even ebay in the long run...everyone loses in the long run...

     Again apples and oranges there is a difference between revenue from the total sale, selling expenses and profit/ROI. I have NEVER had the effective fees from any item I have sold on eBay exceed 16%. Selling expenses, both eBay and other, sure. But there is a difference. 

     It's also amazing how many sellers don't take into account ALL selling costs but I assume that reality rolls around at tax time if and when they do taxes. 

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How do you define “effective fees”?

[dbfolks166mt]

How do you define “effective fees”?

     Effective fees are the total fees eBay charges on the total transaction. It's the amount of the fees divided by the total revenue you received, which is what will go into the 1099 figure. It will always be higher than the 13.25% because of the application of the fees to the sales tax and shipping unless the item is a high value item where the fees drop when a sold item exceeds a certain $ amount.  

     It will also be the dollar amount you enter in your schedule C as an expense when you are doing your taxes. 

[coolections]

@dbfolks166mt   If he sold a $100 bill and only got $35 it would be the same scenario assuming it was heavy. Please stop posting false info. Fees are approximately (average(20-23%) of the item you sold.

[coolections]

@isaiah53-57   The person posts the same chart on every discussion watering down the actual fees. Just ignore the false chart because that is not the percent you pay for your asking price of an item. Take a peek. $50 item cost $14.48 in fees. Do the math, don't use their chart. 28.96%

[buyselljack2016]

After reading your post, I should clarify.  

The "selling costs" %age that I stated did not take into account my COG (very low) nor did it include my Federal/State income tax. Just a %age based on eBay fees, and shipping costs.

eBay is currently for physical and mental exercise with the $$ coming in as just a side perk, so if I were to ever approach the 70% mark, I would wind down my eBay selling faster than currently planned and find other amusement.   

[dbfolks166mt]

@dbfolks166mt   If he sold a $100 bill and only got $35 it would be the same scenario assuming it was heavy. Please stop posting false info. Fees are approximately (average(20-23%) of the item you sold.

     It's NOT false information some people just cannot understand the difference between eBay fees and selling costs and there is a HUGE difference. It's like doing a schedule C on your taxes for those that do taxes. Maybe this will help. 

[dbfolks166mt]

@isaiah53-57   The person posts the same chart on every discussion watering down the actual fees. Just ignore the false chart because that is not the percent you pay for your asking price of an item. Take a peek. $50 item cost $14.48 in fees. Do the math, don't use their chart. 28.96%

     Sorry to say but it is NOT a false chart and in fact it is part of the cost model I use to set my pricing when I list an item. Sorry but the seller is going to receive $100 in revenue from the transaction not $50. It's NOT the asking price it is the revenue from the TOTAL sale. The $14.48 is one of the sellers selling expenses, the shipping cost is another, the COGS another and the federal and state income taxes another. The fees are NOT watered down the fees were applied to the total sale amount (item, shipping and sales tax). 

[dbfolks166mt]

After reading your post, I should clarify.  

The "selling costs" %age that I stated did not take into account my COG (very low) nor did it include my Federal/State income tax. Just a %age based on eBay fees, and shipping costs.

eBay is currently for physical and mental exercise with the $$ coming in as just a side perk, so if I were to ever approach the 70% mark, I would wind down my eBay selling faster than currently planned and find other amusement.   

     I realize your numbers did not include other selling expenses. Often people complain about the eBay fees but that is often the least of my selling expenses. If items are priced using a costing model there is nothing wrong with the 70% mark as long as the ROI is acceptable to the seller. Most financial experts consider a 7% ROI to be pretty good. 

[nuclearomen]

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

why would you list it $50 if you know basically loosing money or not making enough to be worth the time? 

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@nuclearomen

Looking at this from your experienced vantage point, you can see the folly of doing this - I think the OP is showing how ridiculous the situation can be when selling an item of this nature and will likely not go on with the listing?

Problem is,(something people who defend ebay rarely mention given they cant see past their own experience) think of how many new or inexperienced buyers fall into this trap - The same trap they blindly fall into when they opt to use the Promoted Listing "SUGGESTED RATE" - Think about how many of these people DONT continue selling or buying here, feeling duped and disillusioned by their experience - Think about the bad word of mouth these same people are passing along...This is happening and in my opinion at an accelerated rate...

People can water down the numbers all they want, but when people sell here and they give up 25% to 40% or their ITEMS SELLING PRICE in fees, it does not behoove anyone: Not the buyers, the sellers, or even ebay in the long run...everyone loses in the long run...

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@isaiah53-57 yeah sure, all that is true. But I don't loose, i make a sale i make profit from that sale, every sale, that is why everything has a price to it, that price isn't made out for just cost of item, ebay fees, and shipping, I would suspect every seller to have a profit margin on their amount of the sale after everything is taken. If not not sure what we're doing here otherwise. But anyways, back to your post... 

Selling on a market place today is a game of patience. What you talk about with the suggest rates on items PL, I have always warned sellers about electing those rates and above them. But the essence of why people do it because they feel if they don't their item will not sell or be seen and that is ebay's fault for putting that inflated rates as suggestions. If a item has a 7% suggested rate by ebay, that typically means you can elect 4% and be completely fine. But instead get people electing those suggested or higher and in reality all that does is encourages ebay to keep raising those suggested rates higher in the long run. They have done that since the start. Prior to the most recent changes to PLs and how they charge them now those suggested rates with half what they are now, they literally doubled overnight when the new way they charge them went into effect. Not due to any demand, any sales history, and search history or buying trends, they just doubled them to get people to elect higher percentages. So I agree 100% with the "The same trap they blindly fall into when they opt to use Promoted Listing "SUGGESTED RATE"

[joliztoyco]

And here is where it gets "murky". Under the category of "handling" and in the interest of realistic costs which should be included on every auction many sellers group packing materials and even gas to the Post Office. Most just add it into their shipping.
Why in the BLEEP is Feebay making money off my packing materials and the darn gas I have to buy to ship?? 
Every entity I have made money for over the last 30 years acknowledged this cost and either let me turn in receipts, gave me a gas card, a per diem, or provided me a company truck.
And it DIDN'T matter if I was an hourly, salary, or a contractor.
Because I "made them money"!
Like sellers do for feebay.
But feebay's policy of bleeding their sellers for every cent they can get? Including my packing materials?
My gas?
That's garbage.
And enough sellers have had it. And are walking away. 
Ebay's own numbers are hard to ignore.

[isaiah53-57]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

@isaiah53-57   The person posts the same chart on every discussion watering down the actual fees. Just ignore the false chart because that is not the percent you pay for your asking price of an item. Take a peek. $50 item cost $14.48 in fees. Do the math, don't use their chart. 28.96%

     Sorry to say but it is NOT a false chart and in fact it is part of the cost model I use to set my pricing when I list an item. Sorry but the seller is going to receive $100 in revenue from the transaction not $50. It's NOT the asking price it is the revenue from the TOTAL sale. The $14.48 is one of the sellers selling expenses, the shipping cost is another, the COGS another and the federal and state income taxes another. The fees are NOT watered down the fees were applied to the total sale amount (item, shipping and sales tax). 

---

I, and I think we, in speaking for others here, understand you are looking at this from an purely accounting viewpoint only - Where the shipping cost is part of the valuation of the item/sale until you remove it as a deduction - Where the entire sale(excepting sales tax) is revenue and we need to account for it as such when we do our taxes - That is accurate and something we do need to do because ebay reports our shipping costs as revenue(a misnomer of sorts). Thats fine, but you dont need to be that stringent when you want to get a quick glance at the profit you made in the sale - You dont need to pull out your spread sheet and start "accounting"

And there's no need for you to correct someone every time they post something focusing on the fees as related to the item price alone with the stringent accounting practices we'll all be having fun doing come tax time -  Its easy to see at a glance the true effect fees have on your sale in correlation to the item price alone -  In order to get a quick clear view of how fees are affecting profit(which is really all that matters) you dont need to add shipping into the valuation to just to turn around and take it right back out - In short, there is absolutely no point in adding shipping in as value/revenue just to turn around and take it right back out of the equation in order to make a quick assessment of the profit you made - Thats something you do when you deduct it as a cost on your tax paperwork - If someone in the meantime does not care to view shipping as any part of the value of the item, but as a wash, then just let them do it - What is this obsession? - The numbers they are considering are no less or no more correct than the numbers you are considering -  When you finally hit the line item and deduct shipping as a cost out of your total valuation you'll end up with the same number these people are posting here -So maybe you should just let them be...

Fees are high - There's no hiding it with any amount of watering down - Thats why people are posting what they are posting

[dbfolks166mt]

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

@isaiah53-57   The person posts the same chart on every discussion watering down the actual fees. Just ignore the false chart because that is not the percent you pay for your asking price of an item. Take a peek. $50 item cost $14.48 in fees. Do the math, don't use their chart. 28.96%

     Sorry to say but it is NOT a false chart and in fact it is part of the cost model I use to set my pricing when I list an item. Sorry but the seller is going to receive $100 in revenue from the transaction not $50. It's NOT the asking price it is the revenue from the TOTAL sale. The $14.48 is one of the sellers selling expenses, the shipping cost is another, the COGS another and the federal and state income taxes another. The fees are NOT watered down the fees were applied to the total sale amount (item, shipping and sales tax). 

I, and I think we, in speaking for others here, understand you are looking at this from an purely accounting viewpoint only - Where the shipping cost is part of the valuation of the item/sale until you remove it as a deduction - Where the entire sale(excepting sales tax) is revenue and we need to account for it as such when we do our taxes - That is accurate and something we do need to do because ebay reports our shipping costs as revenue(a misnomer of sorts). Thats fine, but you dont need to be that stringent when you want to get a quick glance at the profit you made in the sale - You dont need to pull out your spread sheet and start "accounting"

     Profit is a different matter. The OP was about fees and what I posted is a correct calculation of the eBay fees. 

And there's no need for you to correct someone every time they post something focusing on the fees as related to the item price alone with the stringent accounting practices we'll all be having fun doing come tax time -  Its easy to see at a glance the true effect fees have on your sale in correlation to the item price alone -  In order to get a quick clear view of how fees are affecting profit(which is really all that matters) you dont need to add shipping into the valuation to just to turn around and take it right back out - In short, there is absolutely no point in adding shipping in as value/revenue just to turn around and take it right back out of the equation in order to make a quick assessment of the profit you made - Thats something you do when you deduct it as a cost on your tax paperwork - If someone in the meantime does not care to view shipping as any part of the value of the item, but as a wash, then just let them do it - What is this obsession?

     My obsession is the same as yours when you wash out the shipping. I choose not to because it is a factor in the effective fee rate eBay charges.

- The numbers they are considering are no less or no more correct than the numbers you are considering -  When you finally hit the line item and deduct shipping as a cost out of your total valuation you'll end up with the same number these people are posting here -So maybe you should just let them be...

Correct and now who is doing accounting? The number will be the same but the costs will reflect differently. FYI I didn't fire the first shot and was willing to let it be. You and coolections did that I simply countered. You may not agree with my posts but you can simply ignore them. 

Fees are high - There's no hiding it with any amount of watering down - Thats why people are posting what they are posting

     I won't argue that fees are high but eBay runs a business and their sole purpose is to maximize the value to the shareholders, nothing more. Shipping is high but the carriers are also in business to make a profit. At least business wise sellers know how to factor those costs into their pricing to obtain the Profit/ROI they are looking for. Income taxes are high but that's simply another fact in business.

     There are a LOT of items that I cannot post on eBay simply because I cannot do so in a price competitive manner due to the selling costs. Those I move on other platforms and venues that now comprise about 80% of my sales. 

     EBay is doing themselves no favors by posting the sales information in the seller hub which show selling costs which a LOT of sellers translate to the fees they are paying which is not true. 

[monroe67]

"And here is where it gets "murky". Under the category of "handling" and in the interest of realistic costs which should be included on every auction many sellers group packing materials and even gas to the Post Office. Most just add it into their shipping."  (Hmm.  I don't see the "murk.")
"Why in the BLEEP is Feebay making money off my packing materials and the darn gas I have to buy to ship??"

eBay is allowed to earn money for its shareholders.  This is the purpose of a corporation. 
Indeed, capitalism itself depends on it.  It is called the Profit Motive.  I am pretty sure a high percentage of eBay sellers themselves have a Profit Motive.  
 
"Every entity I have made money for over the last 30 years acknowledged this cost and either let me turn in receipts, gave me a gas card, a per diem, or provided me a company truck.
And it DIDN'T matter if I was an hourly, salary, or a contractor.
Because I "made them money"!
Like sellers do for feebay."

Here's the difference between eBay and, as you say, "every entity you have made money for over the last 30 years": 
As an eBay seller, YOU do not have an employment or contract relationship with eBay.  In your past experience as an employee or a contractor with specific activities spelled out, your employers or contractees would probably have had that requirement, to reimburse costs, written into their standard contracts with you.  

It seems to me that wise eBay sellers will keep track of their mileage to the post office, and keep the receipts showing how much money they spend when they buy envelopes, boxes, etc., etc., whatever they need.  Those things could all be deductible expenses when eBay sellers prepare their income tax returns. 

Also:  the fees we sellers pay to eBay -- or looked at from another angle, the fees eBay retains from our sales -- those fees could also be deductible on tax returns filed by eBay sellers.  

By the way, people who buy from my eBay selling ID pay my eBay fees.  

"But feebay's policy of bleeding their sellers for every cent they can get? Including my packing materials?  My gas?  That's garbage."

"Garbage."  Yet you have 51 current active listings and have sold 17 items this year so far.  

[annagabor]

Listed fees on ebay are not true. They take the percentage listed on your sale price +shipping+ sales tax plus .30 cents. Now they also want you to promote for mostly 12% and up  in order for buyers to  see in searches.  You usually pay out abour 25% or more on a non promoted item and 35% and more on a promoted item.