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PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

As most know, PayPal has a buyer protection policy that goes for 6 months beyond the purchase date. What you might not know is that any buyer on ebay can wait until the ebay return period expires and then make up a bogus reason for a refund and they will get their money returned. There is essentially nothing the seller can do to protect themselves.

Here's what happened to me. April 11 I sold a brand new in box android phone on eBay. Five months later, the buyer contacted me and informed me the phone worked fine on Verizon until September 8 when he attempted to upgrade the OS and bricked the phone. He wanted me to refund his money. He even provided a photo of the phone screen showing it was bricked. I liken this to him smashing the screen 5 months after purchase and wanting his money back. I said no, you broke it.

He put in a refund request with PayPal simply claiming "phone not as described", no details, no proof. I provided Paypal a detailed response and included the message exchange.

PayPal found in favor of the buyer. When I called, PayPal told me they don't accept ebay messages or photos as proof. What do they take? Your word against theirs and to keep buyers happy they usually find in the buyer's favor.

I am not a small business, I'm just some guy struggling to make ends meet who resells items I find cheap. I don't have the money to pay a bogus return. Nevertheless, PayPal says they will deduct it from my empty checking account and I have NO recourse. What's worse, I was told even if the phone is physically damaged, as long as the tracking number shows a completed return, I'm out the money.

 

The worst part for me is that PayPal takes no risk on a policy that is so easily defrauded. ALL OF THE RISK IS TAKEN BY THE SELLER. What did this bad decision cost PayPal? Nothing. I have proof he is lying and provided it, but PayPal never bothered to look at it.

 

Anyone know if there is anything I can do? I already plan to shutdown my eBay and PayPal accounts. My trust has been violated.

Message 1 of 16
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15 REPLIES 15

Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

 

I would recommend posting this on Paypal's discussion boards,

as this is soley a Paypal dispute.

 

They may have much more knowledge, and better advice, over there.

 

Lynn


Lynn

You love me for everything you hate me for


.
Message 2 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

I don't think there is much you can do. Paypal gives a buyer 6 months to return on their dime for a refund. If you ask me that's way too much time. It gives someone who damages an item after they've owned it for a while plenty of time to get their money back, or if they've simply grown tired of it. 

 

I have heard that some credit card companies allow chargebacks for up to a year, so sellers are never really safe.

Message 3 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

We can only hope that eBay’s rollout of Adyen payment system will address this ridiculous 6 month time frame that effectively allows the buyer to “rent” anything on eBay for that period of time.

 

A 30 day guarantee should mean EXACTLY that. 

 

PayPal is essentially giving every buyer in the world who uses their system a guaranteed money-back extended warranty, many times over and above the warranty that came with item when it was brand spanking new.

I'm ̶p̶r̶e̶t̶t̶y̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ certain the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
Message 4 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

I think all that you can do now is the threaten to contact the FTC and the BBB.  Actually, don't threaten them.   Just do it first and then tell them about it later.

Message 5 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

Most of us have known this since eBay &’PayPal split & PayPal went to a 180 day policy. There’s nothing you can do except file an appeal. 



One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**
Message 6 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program


@newview wrote:

We can only hope that eBay’s rollout of Adyen payment system will address this ridiculous 6 month time frame that effectively allows the buyer to “rent” anything on eBay for that period of time.

 

A 30 day guarantee should mean EXACTLY that. 

 

PayPal is essentially giving every buyer in the world who uses their system a guaranteed money-back extended warranty, many times over and above the warranty that came with item when it was brand spanking new.


They can just as easily open a credit card dispute. Adyen isn't a savor that people make it out to be.

Message 7 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

true. this happened to me. That is why I always keep PDFs of the shipping and delivery proof, now. at least of the higher price items I sell.
Message 8 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

create a special checking account and debit credit card and keep it empty and deposit only when you need to make purchases. This is an account that I use simply for online purchases in case it is compromised they cannot charge up your card or steal from you.

When you open it till your bank that you do not want the overdraft protection option so when they try to refund a buyer 6 months later your card will be empty and you will be able to hold on to your money

Message 9 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

I had a similar thing happen.  I sold a beautiful Sony car stereo on Ebay.  Buyer purchased it, paid right away with paypal.  I shipped the stereo the next day.  Never heard another thing from buyer.   Several months later I noticed, purely by chance, paypal had sent the guy his money back...months after he bought it. Right out of my paypal account.  No notification, no inquiry, nothing.....simply took the money from me and gave it to the buyer! (Neither ebay nor  paypal bothered to enlist my side of the story) When I looked into it a little...buyer claimed he never received it!?!?!  Tracking showed he did indeed receive it!!  So, paypal takes HIS word, disregards the USPS proof of delivery, and my word, and I'm out $350.  Just like that.  Its a known scam that eBay buyers now use.  I don't use paypal on eBay anymore.  Such a shame.  Selling on Ebay has now become more like selling on craigslist.  Such a shame.  

Message 10 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program


@herf-on! wrote:

I had a similar thing happen.  I sold a beautiful Sony car stereo on Ebay.  Buyer purchased it, paid right away with paypal.  I shipped the stereo the next day.  Never heard another thing from buyer.

 

[Now] buyer claimed he never received it!?!?!  Tracking showed he did indeed receive it!!  So, paypal takes HIS word, disregards the USPS proof of delivery, and my word, and I'm out $350.  Just like that.


P.S. Do you @herf-on! have a calendar.

 

Are you sure tracking shows Delivered -- go look at the website? If not, that's why PayPal refunded your buyer.

Message 11 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program


@ste-9405 wrote:

@herf-on! wrote:

I had a similar thing happen.  I sold a beautiful Sony car stereo on Ebay.  Buyer purchased it, paid right away with paypal.  I shipped the stereo the next day.  Never heard another thing from buyer.

 

[Now] buyer claimed he never received it!?!?!  Tracking showed he did indeed receive it!!  So, paypal takes HIS word, disregards the USPS proof of delivery, and my word, and I'm out $350.  Just like that.


P.S. Do you @herf-on! have a calendar.

 

Are you sure tracking shows Delivered -- go look at the website? If not, that's why PayPal refunded your buyer.


Tracking information is only valid for three or four months, then it resets and/or disappears. Of course when the scammer waits until the tracking information falls off they win an INR or chargeback because the tracking doesn't exist and doesn't show delivery.

 

 

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.


We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell
Message 12 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

Ya. It was delivered. 

Message 13 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

USPS tracking that had disappeared after 120 days can be obtained via an FOIA request, and PayPal accepts it in an appeal.
Message 14 of 16
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Re: PayPal scam exploits Buyer Protection Program

The whole credit card buyer protection up to a year stuff is completely insane.  I know people who buy stuff use it for a year and then file chargebacks--these people need a trip to the police station for theft, not a license to steal.

Message 15 of 16
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