eBay

toyshnip · ‎09-09-2019

Just wondering if we did the right thing.
A customer bought an brand new item from us. He opens a case as not as described claiming the item is defective.

We received the item today, tested it, and it works perfectly fine. We did a video showing that the item is working. It could be that the customer didn't read the manual or doesn't know how to use the item.

Since the item is open, we can not sell it anymore.

The customer wanted a replacement. If the item was indeed defective, then we would have sent a replacement. But since we tested it and it is fine, we decided to use the 50% refund option ebay gave us. From what I understood, ebay will also protect us in case the customer leaves a negative feedback.

Not an expensive item, so we didn't lose much even after the 50%.

What would you have done?

1. Send a replacement item (meaning keeping the money, but losing 2 items), with a risk that the customer will again open a case for it to be defective.

2. Give a full refund.

3. Give a 50% refund.

femmefan1946 · ‎09-10-2019

My favourite answer would be "We don't have any New In Box thingamajigs in stock, but we do have a few New Without Tags, which have been tested and are working. Would that be acceptable?"

And then send him back the one he rejected.

I only look like a sweet little old lady.

7606dennis · ‎09-10-2019

@femmefan1946 wrote:
My favourite answer would be "We don't have any New In Box thingamajigs in stock, but we do have a few New Without Tags, which have been tested and are working. Would that be acceptable?"
And then send him back the one he rejected.

I only look like a sweet little old lady.

I suppose that might work but if the buyer caught onto your deception there would probably be hell to pay!

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

femmefan1946 · ‎09-10-2019

@bigdeals.etc

But I wonder how he handles it when items come back SNAD with open packages (no longer mint condition).

How about a second ID that sells unboxed figurines at a significant discount that covers his costs of accepting the return and refunding?

If the NIB figure sold for $100+ $10 shipping, he did not lose $110 by refunding.

He lost $10 shipping, PP fee of $3.49, plus eBay FVF of ~$11, plus his wholesale/procurement cost ($10? $25? if he's paying more, he's losing money), and maybe $5 for extra packaging.

So ~$50 was his cost and his loss.

If the figure without the original packaging will sell for anything over $50 he breaks even. At $75 he has a small profit.

Your selling price is greater than your cost.

"Well, maybe I'm not a fancy gentleman like you, with your ... very fine hat. But I do business. We're here for business."-- Captain Malcolm Reynolds

femmefan1946 · ‎09-10-2019

I know.

But I have a rich fantasy life....

coolections · ‎09-10-2019

@7606dennis wrote:
Do you think that it is likely that a buyer will accept the seller's word that there was nothing wrong with the item and accept either the same item again or a refund of half of what they paid? Sorry, I believe that they would raise a yew & cry so loud the it would be heard all the way to eBay's counting house.

The OP is basically calling the customer either a lair or ignorant. Not what I would consider a good business model.

I would have been calling Ebay immediately and letting them know the item did not work correctly and that I expect a FULL refund not a half refund. I cannot believe Ebay allows sellers to randomly decide what kind of refund to give a buyer.

toyshnip · ‎09-10-2019

@7606dennis wrote:
@toyshnip wrote:
@7606dennis wrote:
@bonjourami wrote:
If they offer free returns.
I'm not sure that simply offering free returns is going to allow the seller to get by with keeping half of the buyer's money. I can see legal issues arising if that is the case. Not to mention buyers being reluctant to buy on eBay once the word got out that they could lose half of what they paid simply because the seller offers free returns and then says that there is nothing wrong with the product returned as defective by the buyer.

Frankly, I can see too much potential for abuse by some unscrupulous sellers for something like that to not become a major concern for buyers and we're all aware of how eBay feels about buyers having concerns and bad feelings about their experience on eBay.
Just remember that "free returns" means that the seller is paying the shipping to return the item. If the item is resellable, there is no reason to not give 100% refund. if the item is open, then the seller is losing 100% of the item (if it can't be sold used), so giving back 50% refund means that the seller is losing.
While I admit to not being too familiar with the free returns program, the MBG given to buyers by eBay requires the seller to pay the return shipping for not as described items. I really cannot see a buyer that thinks the item is defective (not as described) will be willing to accept only a half of what they paid for the item that they returned because the seller says that they found nothing wrong with the item that the buyer had returned as defective. Do you?

It will be interesting to hear what your buyer will say to such an offer. Please keep the board informed.

It wasn't an offer. when we closed the case, we had an option to give a refund or a partial refund. We put a partial refund with an explanation that we tested the item and it works fine. We attached a photo of the item in action.
So it is not really "not as described", as this was a brand new item, sealed in a package with the SKU, description matching and an item we sold dozens without any issue.
This wasn't a defective item as we managed to activate it. So there was no real reason for us to pay for a return label (so already a loss there) and get back an item that had no real issue with except for a customer who didn't read the manual.
Customer of course sent a message asking why he only got a partial refund and why we didn't just send him a replacement. We explained that the item we got back was not defective, so we couldn't just take the loss and send a new one when he didn't have a legit reason for the return.

toyshnip · ‎09-10-2019

@7606dennis wrote:
@2015mhfashions wrote:
I've always stated mistakes cost money, so if it's a buyers mistake buyer pays same as seller mistake seller pays, really do not understand why people think mistakes should be at the cost of anyone other than the one who made the mistake in the first place.
Do you think that it is likely that a buyer will accept the seller's word that there was nothing wrong with the item and accept either the same item again or a refund of half of what they paid? Sorry, I believe that they would raise a yew & cry so loud the it would be heard all the way to eBay's counting house.

The OP is basically calling the customer either a lair or ignorant. Not what I would consider a good business model.

You are correct. That is why we were torn on what to do.

We could of just sent another item. That means that we are now out of 2 items and 2 more USPS charges (The return and shipping the replacement item).
But if the issue was a customer that doesn't know how to use the item, sending a replacement will bring the same result. The buyer will just open another return (so shipping charge #3) and maybe a negative feedback about how our items are defective. So sending him a replacement got result in even a bigger loss.

We had to accept the buyer's word that the item was defective. That was an auto-approval to ship the item back to us. But we tested the item and it works fine. So yes, most likely it is a case of a customer who is lying or just doesn't know how to use the item. With customers like that, we are limited in how we can help, so we need to decide where to cut our loss and how to close the story.

We do see cases of items that are really defective. Many times we just refund/replace. But those are items we know that it makes sense it can arrive defective or broken. This is an item that is rare to arrive with issues, and we were correct that it was ok after we tested it.

If the person would have contacted us before shipping it back, we may have helped with explaining how to use the item or refer to a youtube video. We had in the past cases where we helped and avoided a case. In one case, we asked a customer who was very upset that the item is defective if he remembered to put in batteries. That solved the issue...

slati_2013 · ‎09-10-2019

Hmmmm. On this, I plead guilty. I once bought an item that I sent back because when I plugged it in, it did nothing. No noise. No light showing it was on. The equipment it was meant to power also did not turn on. I sent it back claiming it was defective and bought one that was new. Same issue. I did some research and found out that I needed an additional cable for the equipment to work. Once I did that, problem solved.

I have always felt guilty that I sent the item back claiming it was defective. I am a seller and knows how it must have felt. I thought about what I could do to fix what happened, but I decided it was just best to do nothing. Still bothers me though.

threshold.sales.group · ‎09-10-2019

OP, if you offer free returns does the buyer choosing the wrong reason even matter? If they chose a remorse reason you are still getting back the item and paying the freight, you always pay the return shipping - plus agreeing to issue the full refund. As I understand the program, the deduction is only to be used on switcheroos, empty boxes or items returned destroyed. Buyers are allowed to open packaging per policy.

I guess in nutshell since they returned a working item - (imo) I think you owe them the rest of the refund.

toyshnip · ‎09-10-2019

We only sell new items.
If it was a remorse reason, the buyer could have sent us back the item on our expense. We would give a full refund. We agree to take this, as we can then return the item back to inventory and sell it to a different buyer. If an item is new and sealed, then all we lose is the extra shipping.

In this case, the customer opened the item. So we can't resell it. No customer will want a used item, as it is cheap enough to just buy a new one. It is not worth selling it as "used". So what he sent back now has a value of 0 to us.
If it was defective, we would of send a replacement or a refund without a doubt. But it wasn't defective, so now we are left with the item that lost all of it's value.

If in a remorse return we get back an open item, we can only give back 50%. That means we will be losing money (as we still payed for a return shipping and only got back 50% of the item). It is a risk we are willing to take to give better customer service.

threshold.sales.group · ‎09-10-2019

Fwiw, per eBay rules the buyer is allowed to open the package, even for remorse returns. The policy is the they need to return the working item, original packaging and all contents.

toyshnip · ‎09-10-2019

@threshold.sales.group wrote:
Fwiw, per eBay rules the buyer is allowed to open the package, even for remorse returns. The policy is the they need to return the working item, original packaging and all contents.

It has to be in the same condition. Once they open the package (not the shipping box, the actual item) it changes it's condition. It is no longer "new" but "used".

toyshnip · ‎09-10-2019

What we did is based on the new seller protection:

"Up to 50% refund deduction for decreased value on used or damaged returns -
When you issue a refund for an item that was returned after it was used or damaged by a buyer, and you have a track record of delivering on your service promise, we’ll give you the ability to protect yourself. Top Rated Sellers can deduct up to 50% of the refund to recover the decreased value of the item. If there are any issues with buyers that may negatively impact you, we’ll take care of them by removing any negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics."

In our case:
"used or damaged by a buyer" - Yes. It was returned open
"you have a track record of delivering on your service promise" - yes
"can deduct up to 50% of the refund to recover the decreased value of the item" - We lost 100% of the item, as it is not sell-able.
"we’ll take care of them by removing any negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics." - So based on ebay guidelines, why would anyone send a replacement? No risk of defect/feedback. Giving a 50% refund is better then shipping a 100% new item.

Now, to be fair, if the item was defective, we would have shipped a replacement or give a full refund. Same if the item was sealed. We only did this as the item was not defective, but it was open. So it was not our fault here, but we still lost.

batcat63 · ‎09-10-2019

Is this the current policy?

"https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763"

Seems it depends on the item.

toyshnip · ‎09-10-2019

bought an item of clothing and removed the tags, then decided it was too small. Can I still return it and receive a full refund?
You can return the item, but as it's no longer in the exact same condition as when you received it, the seller might deduct some portion of the refund to cover loss of value.

Opening a sealed package is like removing the tags.

Also -

Same or unaltered condition (not an exhaustive list):

Unused, unaltered, with no damage or signs of use outside of the listed item condition or how it was received

Opening the package is sign of damage.
______________________________________________________
The point is, that if we took the package and shipped it to a different customer, he will have a claim for not as described as the item is not new anymore.