New Cancellation Policy Goes Against the Fundamental Idea of Auctions and is killing sales.

[blair_bush]

This new policy is shockingly bad, and literally goes against the fundamental principles of auctions.

1) There is no accountability to Buyers to follow through with their bids! If they win, they can cancel the order immediately for no reason (I am seeing "found a better price" as a reason...YOU CAN'T LOOK FOR BETTER PRICES AFTER YOU WIN AN AUCTION.

2) Buyers have no choice but to accept.

3) Second Chance offers now have given me an additional step that MAY or MAY NOT work, so I now have to do more work to get a lesser price because the high bidder isn't accountable (see #1 above).

4) I went to leave feedback for a canceled order, and there is no option for NEGATIVE or even NEUTRAL feedback. ONLY positive!

This is wrong in every way.

[bgt_masters_of_tiki_d]

Ebay removed the ability for seller's to leave anything but positive feedback over a decade ago. Only buyer's can leave negatives and neutrals now. I was never much for the whole auction style listings. Think I did one once and never again. You'll either have to deal with how it is set up and hope it changes for the better, find another place to sell or go strictly to fixed price listings with immediate payment turned on. 

[a_c_green]

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@blair_bush wrote:

This new policy is shockingly bad, and literally goes against the fundamental principles of auctions.

1) There is no accountability to Buyers to follow through with their bids! If they win, they can cancel the order immediately for no reason (I am seeing "found a better price" as a reason...YOU CAN'T LOOK FOR BETTER PRICES AFTER YOU WIN AN AUCTION.

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Well, yes, although a buyer of a Fixed Price/BuyItNow item can also request a cancellation before the item is shipped.

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@blair_bush wrote:

2) Buyers have no choice but to accept.

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I assume you mean that sellers have no choice but to accept, which is true, but there's really no point in shipping anyway to someone who has already stated that they don't want it. They will demand a refund if payment already occurred, and shipping it regardless will only result in, ideally, getting it back again later, hopefully in undamaged condition so that you can try selling it again. Better to just cancel, and weld the deadbeat into your Blocked Buyer List.

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@blair_bush wrote:

3) Second Chance offers now have given me an additional step that MAY or MAY NOT work, so I now have to do more work to get a lesser price because the high bidder isn't accountable (see #1 above).

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Second Chance Offers have been around forever. My batting average when sending those has been around .500, which I understand is a bit better than most, although these days I'm generally using auctions only for more sought-after pieces, so the second-place bidder is pretty motivated to go for it.

Keep in mind also that your second-place bidder's price is no more than one bid increment below the guy who won and then cancelled, so, for example, if your winner bailed on a $75 win, your SCO offer will be at $74 to the next guy in line. That's worth a 24-hour offer to him, I'd say.

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@blair_bush wrote:

4) I went to leave feedback for a canceled order, and there is no option for NEGATIVE or even NEUTRAL feedback. ONLY positive!

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That has been in effect since around 2008 if I remember right, so you must have been successfully avoiding that discovery all this time through a string of happy buyers.

[iamalwaysright]

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@blair_bush wrote:

This new policy is shockingly bad, and literally goes against the fundamental principles of auctions.

1) There is no accountability to Buyers to follow through with their bids! If they win, they can cancel the order immediately for no reason (I am seeing "found a better price" as a reason...YOU CAN'T LOOK FOR BETTER PRICES AFTER YOU WIN AN AUCTION.

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And yet when a buyer files for a return for an item they received, eBay allows them to choose “found a better price” as a reason for returning the item. This shows that eBay allows buyers to shop around and look for better prices after you win an auction. They even allow it after they receive the item, hence the return reason.

I’m not saying I support eBay doing this nor do I like it. But unfortunately this is how eBay is now, and apparently you are incorrect by saying buyers can’t do this since eBay obviously allows it. 

[harborauction]

Would love to see ebay

1. block bidders who have canceled 3 winning auction bids from bidding on auctions (they won't)

2. put an item count of canceled sales on buyer's profiles much like the revised feedback count seen on seller's profiles (they won't)

Unfortunately anything that looks like a buyer to ebay, weather they actually buy or not, is untouchable and ebay would never offend them by prodding them to actually follow through with their purchases

And yes it doesn't matter if you are using auction or FP format, Had a buyer yesterday make 2 FP purchases early in the morning and when I went to print labels the transactions were gone, he canceled for "found better price" Would be great if buyers would shop then buy instead of buy then shop but as stated above ebay allows it

[doc-holmes]

I was under the impression the seller still had the option to accept or decline the cancellation, although declining would open a whole other can of worms. 

[brightlightbookseller]

Technically, yes, but practically as you noted there's no real reason to deny a cancellation unless you've already shipped it.  It blocks the ability to cancel for any other reason too, so it's not like it gives you the ability to give a deadbeat a strike or anything.  I almost wish they would remove the option to deny a cancellation, except that I know not everyone has their tracking information automatically loaded into eBay and those sellers need an option for that occasional gap between actually shipping and marking as shipped.

[iamalwaysright]

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@doc-holmes wrote:

I was under the impression the seller still had the option to accept or decline the cancellation, although declining would open a whole other can of worms. 

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That’s the impression eBay gives sellers. It’s an illusion created to make sellers think they have control in cancellation requests. In an auction, if the buyer ultimately doesn’t pay, accepting or declining the cancellation request will result in the exact same outcome. 

Accepted: Seller doesn’t get paid, buyer doesn’t get item or a payment strike.

Declined: Item will sit in the Awaiting Payments page. Seller doesn’t get paid (buyer still chooses to not pay). Seller is unable to give the buyer a payment strike because “a cancellation was already opened” I.e. that initial cancellation request the buyer filed. Sadly because ebay also categorizes a “cancellation” as a payment strike, they will not allow you to file one for the buyer anymore. Buyer doesn’t get item and no payment strike. The item will sit in the Awaiting Payments page until it times out (I think 90 days) or until you archive it.

[ittybitnot]

as you noted there's no real reason to deny a cancellation unless you've already shipped it. 

@brightlightbookseller 

Sometimes it will depend on whether or not the item is paid for.  If it is not paid for, and the buyer asks to cancel in the appropriate time frame, they will never get a non-payment strike if the seller does not cancel.  Used to be the option for the seller to 'cancel for non-payment' after 4 days remained.  It no longer does, and lets the non-paying buyer off the hook for the 2 in 12 block many sellers use.  

All buyers can avoid a non-payment strike by employing this method as many times as they like.  Doesn't do much for eBay's "war on non-paying buyers" though, other than give them another  pass.  

If the item has been paid for, the seller may have to fund the "refund" themselves.  This is especially true for newbie sellers who are under the 30 day payment hold.  eBay will not allow "held" funds to be used to refund the buyer.  The seller is required to fund that refund with a bank account or c.card, and will be reimbursed after a month.  This has the potential of truly being an unnecessary  hardship on a seller who doesn't have matching funds in the needed amount. 

[tobaccocardyahoo]

The Ebay auction has become a minor aspect of the site.

Ebay is highly associated with the Ebay auction and it cannot be eliminated.

Good business practices make it necessary to change or limit the Ebay auction for the overall benefit of the site. It would be a dumb move from a PR standpoint to eliminate the auctions, but I am sure that has been considered.

Ebay management frequently tries to seek the greater good, sometimes it succeeds, often it does not.

If it was my ox being gored, I would be upset. Since my use of Ebay auctions is infrequent and trivial to my business, I am not upset and can see why Ebay is making it more buyer friendly.

[brightlightbookseller]

But the consequences of shipping an item the buyer does not want are almost always going to be worse than just accepting the cancellation, even if it has to come out of the seller's funds.

[ittybitnot]

The Ebay auction has become a minor aspect of the site.

@tobaccocardyahoo 

Just because YOU don't use auctions, doesn't mean others don't either. In the categories in which I was an avid buyer, 90+% of the products were sold at auction.  They still are today. 

With the rules that resulted in the "auto-pay" situation,  I just often watch the listings end with little bidding action, since as a buyer I refused to participate.  Why would I bid/win ten auctions with a $5 shipping cost EACH  and pay $50 dollars for shipping alone on the lot of items that could be easily combined for $6 total for the ten pieces?   Color me NOT stupid. 

[tobaccocardyahoo]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

The Ebay auction has become a minor aspect of the site.

@tobaccocardyahoo 

Just because YOU don't use auctions, doesn't mean others don't either. In the categories in which I was an avid buyer, 90+% of the products were sold at auction.  They still are today. 

With the rules that resulted in the "auto-pay" situation,  I just often watch the listings end with little bidding action, since as a buyer I refused to participate.  Why would I bid/win ten auctions with a $5 shipping cost EACH  and pay $50 dollars for shipping alone on the lot of items that could be easily combined for $6 total for the ten pieces?   Color me NOT stupid. 

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@ittybitnot

You've made the case for Ebay doing what its doing.

Its all about the numbers.

It does not matter what you like and what I like,

Most of the auctions are bringing in no money. They cost as much in resources as other sales and require resources which could be used for things which generate more profit for Ebay.

Of the 15% or less of Ebay listings they represent, a large number go to bottom feeders who only buy when the price is low and cannot be relied upon as a source of significant revenue. And they are often resistant to all change.

I am not calling the shots for Ebay, but I can see what business people who are trying to maintain their stock value and return a profit to their shareholders are doing.

Ebay removes categories and  subcategories for reasons we are not told. But being unprofitable is a likely reason.

[harborauction]

As far as "auctions bringing no money" it all depends on the category. Many of the coin & token sellers I follow and buy from now & then have a thriving auction business on ebay as in;

100's of auctions every week with items selling in the $100's & $1000's, true auctions with token starting bids, no games, strong prices, 100% STR , 1000's of followers participating in their sales.

These are multi million $ sellers and I doubt ebay wants end their auction business

Many smaller volume sellers doing the same and there are other categories where auction format is lively, stamps, jewelry, sports cards, etc, etc.

The reason auctions only account for 15% or so of ebay's sales is the fact that only 15%, likely less, of the product offered here is suitable for auction format, as in Average Joe offering their 5 year old toaster oven as an auction with $39 starting bid

[campanaelia]

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@harborauction wrote:

Would love to see ebay

1. block bidders who have canceled 3 winning auction bids from bidding on auctions (they won't)

2. put an item count of canceled sales on buyer's profiles much like the revised feedback count seen on seller's profiles (they won't)

Unfortunately anything that looks like a buyer to ebay, weather they actually buy or not, is untouchable and ebay would never offend them by prodding them to actually follow through with their purchases

And yes it doesn't matter if you are using auction or FP format, Had a buyer yesterday make 2 FP purchases early in the morning and when I went to print labels the transactions were gone, he canceled for "found better price" Would be great if buyers would shop then buy instead of buy then shop but as stated above ebay allows it

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99.9% of what I buy is from auctions. I've never asked to cancel and always pay for what I win.

With that said, many times I've had sellers cancel the sales using the reason "buyer asked to cancel" , which never happened. So if ebay enforced the rules your suggesting I guess I would be blocked from bidding due to sellers lying about the reason for cancellations

And there also should not be an " item count of canceled sales on buyer's profiles" for the same reason.