Methods for handling bad buyers (cross-institution problems)

[sovrappensiero1]

Hi.  I’m fairly new to selling on eBay and I don’t sell very much.  I’m trying to get rid of some things I don’t need and use this money to pay for the expenses related to my lTe mother’s estate.  Here’s my situation:

Buyer purchased an item from me with a Texas shipping address and an (undisclosed) Hong Kong PayPal account.  I shipped the item to the Texas address and then got charged 4.4% by PayPal because of his foreign bank.  Fine. Nothing I can do about that because I don’t have a business account with PayPal so I can’t block foreign transactions with U.S. shipping addresses.

The buyer’s cousin brought the item to Hong Kong.  The buyer emailed me with a problem that I failed to notice about the item (supposedly...of course I don’t have real proof but whatever).  I said ok no problem open a return request through eBay.  I called eBay and this is what they told me to advise him.  Instead, he waited 30 days and did not open the request.  Then he challenged his bank for the transaction.  The bank revoked it and a case was opened with PayPal.  I disputed the case, pasting all our chat evidence and saying that eBay instructed him to open a return request and he didn’t.  I said I’d still accept it after the 30 days.  Now PayPal has taken that money and also charged me $20 (plus the 4.4% transaction fee).  They say they will “try to fight it,” but the problem is the buyer’s bank is never going to hear MY SIDE of the story.

i want to know is there anything I can do about this?  I’m not a business. At this point I have actually PAID money to these institutions AND lost my bag.  I did everything I was supposed to in order to fix this (alleged) error.  Everything within eBay guidelines.  It seems like this buyer just wants a free $100 bag and he manages to get it because of the convoluted payment system. If anyone has any suggestions, I’d appreciate it. I feel like crying...it’s so much work to sell things on eBay and now all the money to pay for my mom’s death-related things is gone because this user is taking advantage. Why not just send it back?  I told him I’d pay return shipping and refund original shipping. I’d still eat expenses but at least I could sell the bag again.

[mam98031]

First and most importantly, I'm very sorry you lost your Mom.  That is a HUGE thing to have to deal with and now trying to make sure her estate is taken care of is a lot to deal with at one time.  My heart goes out to you!!!!

WOW.  So if I understand you correctly, they opened a claim in Ebay and PP at the same time??  That isn't within the rules.

I think you need more help than we [members] can offer you.  You need Ebay to look into what the heck happened and PP too.

On Ebay when a buyer has an item shipped to another address [from where you shipped to], they lose their MBG [Money back guarantee] coverage.  It is unfair to expect a seller that ships to a US address to have to pay for return shipping from a different country which is most times hugely more expensive.

I'm going to tag this thread and hope that we can get you some assistance in this matter.

@Anonymous 

tyler@ebay 

brian@ebay 

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

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@mam98031 wrote:

First and most importantly, I'm very sorry you lost your Mom.  That is a HUGE thing to have to deal with and now trying to make sure her estate is taken care of is a lot to deal with at one time.  My heart goes out to you!!!!

WOW.  So if I understand you correctly, they opened a claim in Ebay and PP at the same time??  That isn't within the rules.

I think you need more help than we [members] can offer you.  You need Ebay to look into what the heck happened and PP too.

On Ebay when a buyer has an item shipped to another address [from where you shipped to], they lose their MBG [Money back guarantee] coverage.  It is unfair to expect a seller that ships to a US address to have to pay for return shipping from a different country which is most times hugely more expensive.

I'm going to tag this thread and hope that we can get you some assistance in this matter.

@Anonymous 

tyler@ebay 

brian@ebay 

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Hi @mam98031, from what the OP has described the buyer filed a chargeback. While the OP instructed the buyer to open a Return Request, the buyer chose to pursue a resolution with their financial institution instead. The buyer is within their rights to select a protection program of their choice, and since they have elected to pursue a refund through a chargeback, eBay won't be involved in the investigation. PayPal will be able to work with the seller and the financial institution, but this is out of eBay's hands. 

I also wanted to echo your sentiments to the OP for their loss. @sovrappensiero1, I'm so sorry that you are going through this kind of grief and my heart goes out to you as well 

[fashunu4eeuh]

So sorry this has happened to you at such a painful time. Please accept my sympathies in the loss of your mother. 

I’m not 100% clear what has happened here. If the customer has filed a chargeback with his credit card, and PayPal has taken the funds, it sounds as if the case is closed in the buyer’s favor already? The buyer can end up with both the refund and the purse. It is unlikely she will send it back to you.

If they filed a chargeback then they can’t open a case in PayPal, i thought.

Whenever a case is opened, i recommend your  reply should be “return the item for a refund.” By fighting the return, it sometimes happens that the buyer gets his refund and is not required to send the item back. It sounds like this has happened to you in this case?

[be_4101]

Not sure @sovrappensiero1 why we don't understand that your buyer did not simultaneously open an eBay and a PayPal case, but rather did not open any cases at all on eBay and PayPal.

Also, sorry but unfortunately, eBay cannot help as the chargeback is outside the eBay deadline, and outside of eBay control, simultaneously, now.

[sovrappensiero1]

Not exactly what happened. eBay said he would be required to send me back the bag. I guess he didn’t want to because he would have to pay to ship from Hong Kong. I am only responsible for the cost of shipping it back from the address in Texas that he listed on his eBay account. Basically, he doesn’t want to return the bag or pay for it, so he is kind of abusing the convoluted payment system in order to get a resolution that is in his favor. eBay told each of us (we each spoke with eBay customer service on the phone) that the proper path forward is to open a refund request. He just didn’t want to play by eBay’s rules. I thought that with eBay and PayPal on my side, I would be protected in such a case.

[sovrappensiero1]

Right. It does seem that he intentionally waited the 30 days, and on the 31st day he opened a case with his financial institution, which then launched a PayPal case (I believe). Thank you for your input. Is there any way to get this buyer blocked on eBay? Other people shouldn’t have to deal with this. My guess is not because he can always make a new account with a new email address...

[sovrappensiero1]

Thank you very much for tagging some people for advice. Thank you (and everyone) for your warm sentiments. It’s an unfortunate situation, but it is nice to have reassurance in this moment that there are decent people here on eBay!

[sovrappensiero1]

Thank you. I understand this is now outside eBay’s responsibility. I will try to move forward with PayPal. It is unclear what they can do, but they did say they will “try to fight it” with the financial institution. I later noticed that this buyer had no feedback at all on his profile, and in one message he told me he has “done business with eBay for a long time,” whereas in one of our first message exchanges I told him I cannot ship outside of eBay (he wanted me to use his corporate shipping discount and I refused). So it seems like most likely this buyer has been committing this kind of fraud, in various ways, on eBay for a long time. I was too stupid to see it. Usually I don’t fall for things like that. I guess this is just my $120 loss... I do wish that eBay could somehow keep these people off the platform. I understand that’s a lot easier said than done because of the anonymity of the Internet.

[mam98031]

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@sovrappensiero1 wrote:
Thank you. I understand this is now outside eBay’s responsibility. I will try to move forward with PayPal. It is unclear what they can do, but they did say they will “try to fight it” with the financial institution. I later noticed that this buyer had no feedback at all on his profile, and in one message he told me he has “done business with eBay for a long time,” whereas in one of our first message exchanges I told him I cannot ship outside of eBay (he wanted me to use his corporate shipping discount and I refused). So it seems like most likely this buyer has been committing this kind of fraud, in various ways, on eBay for a long time. I was too stupid to see it. Usually I don’t fall for things like that. I guess this is just my $120 loss... I do wish that eBay could somehow keep these people off the platform. I understand that’s a lot easier said than done because of the anonymity of the Internet.

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If you qualified for Seller Protection with PP, then you need to bring that to their attention..

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#11