MAJOR seller issues....

[oystercopy]

Hello everyone.

I used to believe eBay was a great place to sell my unused/unwanted items, and for several years, I had no complaints about the way things worked. I both buy and sell, but its the SELLING part that has me really frustrated at the moment.

Example: I sold an item to a buyer in August. Shipped the item, the buyer received it and claimed there was damage. I was notified via email and accepted the return (this all happened in the same day). Later that same day, I received notice that eBay had "closed my case" and issued the buyer a refund... ??

Now, eBay's own policies is that it is supposed to allow me 3 business days to provide the buyer a shipping label to return the merchandise. Instead, they provided the label IMMEDIATELY on their own, but I had just moved and the item was now being returned to an address I no longer occupied. So, eBay circumventing the process early and providing the label prevented me from changing the label to the proper, new address.

Long story short, I have STILL never received the item back, because, somehow, USPS RETURNED the item to THE BUYER (whom I can no longer get in touch with/contact due to the case being closed) yet eBay is asking me to repay the refund that they gave the buyer of $175... is that not RIDICULOUS?  I don't EVEN have the product back and cannot contact the buyer, if even to send them ANOTHER return label with my correct address!!

When discussing this with the eBay reps on the phone (obviously not in the U.S.), they are trying to stick by their decisions, even though the first rep I talked to about this was very empathetic and acknowledged that eBay should not have circumvented their policies, which started the whole snowball rolling down the hill in motion.

Were this the ONLY recent incident with eBay, I would say, well, they're human and people make mistakes (including myself). But I also lost another $170 recently on an item I had drop-shipped to a customer of mine that I bought on eBay, which never arrived, yet, once again, eBay closed THAT case as well before I could make that case with a police report for the stolen/undelivered merchandise. I apologized profusely to my customer for them not receiving the items and have known them for many years, so there is ZERO doubt that what they're telling me about never receiving the merchandise is fully accurate.

These incidents reek of a lack of integrity in the processes, and I am just looking to find out what options I have as a small, but reputable seller going forward.

THANK YOU all in advance!

[ittybitnot]

I see your point, but many buyers don't feel TRS means anything due to bad experiences with them; in fact, a very well known, knowledgeable poster who IS a TRS has posted that some buyers, including her, avoid them due to bad experiences.

I would have to agree.  Years ago there was the POWERSELLER dog badge.  It was supposed to indicate a seller that was better than the rest and inspire confidence in the buyer's choice.   

 Unfortunately, the dog badge was posted for seller who sold alot.  It had nothing to do with the quality of their product, customer service, or anything else, just that they had a high dollar volume.   Soon that became apparent to buyers who then avoided these sellers like the plague.  We used to beg ebay NOT to display the silly badge on our listings even though we sold alot. 

I see the same thing happening with the TRS+ dog badge.  In actuality, it does nothing to denote a quality product.  It does not insure much at all...other than the seller has jumped to attention for all the ebay requirements of free returns etc.   Our most esteemed sellers from the Pacific rim are often TRS+ sellers who only manage to Poff a few hundred buyers per month.  

I do not want my items featured in the search filter ...Free Returns... who wants a buyer who is thinking about returning an item before they even start?  Renters?  Empty box returners who are kicked out of the MBG?  TRS+ sellers are fair game. 

Having purchased many items over the last few months, I cannot say if ANY of these sellers had the TRS dog badge.  I didn't look, don't care, I was interested in the product they offered.  

[divwido]

Did they take the money from you or elect to refund the buyer from their coffers?

[fashunu4eeuh]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

Hi. Looked at several of your listings, all had No Return policy. Of course it is your choice/decision to offer whatever Return policy fits your business model, but you should know that eBay sometimes considers this literally. So they are issuing refunds and not requiring a return because you have stated such in your listings. I’ve seen this done to sellers who post their experience here on the boards, often enough. Not saying it is right or fair, just bringing it to your attention. Good luck moving forward.

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@fashunu4eeuh This is not true at all. eBay does NOT ever take a no returns policy literally. This is an old board myth that refuses to go away. 

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Actually, I am speaking from experience, @missjen831

I was the buyer and had to open a case for Item Not As Described. The seller had a no return policy, and eBay advised me to keep the item and then gave me a refund. It was a dress. Shortly after the refund, since the case was closed,  I sent the dress back on my own dime because it didn't feel right to me to keep it.

It was not a courtesy refund by eBay.

I have heard and seen examples of this very thing happening here on this board and a large Facebook group I was in. It is not a myth at all. Here are links to other threads about this.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping-Returns/buyer-gat-the-money-refunded-without-returning-item-p...

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-hasn-t-returned-item-but-refund-given/qaq-p/27983524

[missjen831]

@fashunu4eeuh It IS a myth and those threads don’t substantiate your claim.  I have to ask, did you even read them? Neither of those buyers got a refund because the seller had a “no returns policy”. in the first thread, the seller failed to accept the return or issue a straight refund. When the seller doesn’t accept the return and the buyer asks eBay to step in, eBay May issue a refund without the buyer returning the item and the sellers return policy has nothing to do with that decision. The MBG states that eBay May do this when the seller doesn’t accept the return.   In the 2nd thread, the seller prematurely issued a refund. She chose the wrong option when responding to the case. She issued a straight refund when she meant to choose “return for a refund”.  The blues have confirmed multiple times that the sellers return policy is not take literally by eBay and that a no returns policy does NOT mean the buyer gets a refund without a return. In almost every post here, it was NOT the sellers no return policy that caused the buyer to get a refund without a return, there was almost always another factor such as not officially accepting the return of not paying for return shipping. It was not the seller return policy that caused it. 

[mypostingid15]

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@oystercopy wrote:

Hello everyone.

I used to believe eBay was a great place to sell my unused/unwanted items, and for several years, I had no complaints about the way things worked. I both buy and sell, but its the SELLING part that has me really frustrated at the moment.

Example: I sold an item to a buyer in August. Shipped the item, the buyer received it and claimed there was damage. I was notified via email and accepted the return (this all happened in the same day). Later that same day, I received notice that eBay had "closed my case" and issued the buyer a refund... ??

Now, eBay's own policies is that it is supposed to allow me 3 business days to provide the buyer a shipping label to return the merchandise. Instead, they provided the label IMMEDIATELY on their own, but I had just moved and the item was now being returned to an address I no longer occupied. So, eBay circumventing the process early and providing the label prevented me from changing the label to the proper, new address.

Long story short, I have STILL never received the item back, because, somehow, USPS RETURNED the item to THE BUYER (whom I can no longer get in touch with/contact due to the case being closed) yet eBay is asking me to repay the refund that they gave the buyer of $175... is that not RIDICULOUS?  I don't EVEN have the product back and cannot contact the buyer, if even to send them ANOTHER return label with my correct address!!

When discussing this with the eBay reps on the phone (obviously not in the U.S.), they are trying to stick by their decisions, even though the first rep I talked to about this was very empathetic and acknowledged that eBay should not have circumvented their policies, which started the whole snowball rolling down the hill in motion.

Were this the ONLY recent incident with eBay, I would say, well, they're human and people make mistakes (including myself). But I also lost another $170 recently on an item I had drop-shipped to a customer of mine that I bought on eBay, which never arrived, yet, once again, eBay closed THAT case as well before I could make that case with a police report for the stolen/undelivered merchandise. I apologized profusely to my customer for them not receiving the items and have known them for many years, so there is ZERO doubt that what they're telling me about never receiving the merchandise is fully accurate.

These incidents reek of a lack of integrity in the processes, and I am just looking to find out what options I have as a small, but reputable seller going forward.

THANK YOU all in advance!

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I don't think you can blame ebay for this, I read the post twice and really think it's the way you do business that's at fault, not updating your address and drop shipping, not a good path for a successful ebay business.

[oystercopy]

I DID update my information, but I had just moved that weekend. Besides, had eBay's own policies not been circumvented, this would never have happened. I stated this in my post; maybe you didn't read it? Their OWN EMAILS to me confirmed I had 3 days to respond; didn't happen. It STILL does not mean that I should have to refund an item that I NEVER RECEIVED BACK... "no return policy" or not. "No Returns" in your profile only means the SALE is final, but not in the case of damage. Additionally, why did the seller not report the damage to the shipping company? You know that's required immediately in my industry, otherwise the claim is invalid. All the buyer did was the easy way out, which was to push eBay for a refund, before even having to return the defective merchandise. How convenient. I think the potential for buyers to abuse this loophole is HUGE....

Additionally, the items I shipped were not ACTUALLY DAMAGED, only the outer box was damaged. So, in reality, the buyer really didn't have a solid case at all, which is even more frustrating.

[oystercopy]

There is no one living at the residence, because it is my old house and is on the market for sale. The post office here in the US, regardless of what you pay them, will not forward PARCELS, only mail, so it would not have helped me, which further complicated the problem.

[oystercopy]

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@mypostingid15 wrote:

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@oystercopy wrote:

Hello everyone.

I used to believe eBay was a great place to sell my unused/unwanted items, and for several years, I had no complaints about the way things worked. I both buy and sell, but its the SELLING part that has me really frustrated at the moment.

Example: I sold an item to a buyer in August. Shipped the item, the buyer received it and claimed there was damage. I was notified via email and accepted the return (this all happened in the same day). Later that same day, I received notice that eBay had "closed my case" and issued the buyer a refund... ??

Now, eBay's own policies is that it is supposed to allow me 3 business days to provide the buyer a shipping label to return the merchandise. Instead, they provided the label IMMEDIATELY on their own, but I had just moved and the item was now being returned to an address I no longer occupied. So, eBay circumventing the process early and providing the label prevented me from changing the label to the proper, new address.

Long story short, I have STILL never received the item back, because, somehow, USPS RETURNED the item to THE BUYER (whom I can no longer get in touch with/contact due to the case being closed) yet eBay is asking me to repay the refund that they gave the buyer of $175... is that not RIDICULOUS?  I don't EVEN have the product back and cannot contact the buyer, if even to send them ANOTHER return label with my correct address!!

When discussing this with the eBay reps on the phone (obviously not in the U.S.), they are trying to stick by their decisions, even though the first rep I talked to about this was very empathetic and acknowledged that eBay should not have circumvented their policies, which started the whole snowball rolling down the hill in motion.

Were this the ONLY recent incident with eBay, I would say, well, they're human and people make mistakes (including myself). But I also lost another $170 recently on an item I had drop-shipped to a customer of mine that I bought on eBay, which never arrived, yet, once again, eBay closed THAT case as well before I could make that case with a police report for the stolen/undelivered merchandise. I apologized profusely to my customer for them not receiving the items and have known them for many years, so there is ZERO doubt that what they're telling me about never receiving the merchandise is fully accurate.

These incidents reek of a lack of integrity in the processes, and I am just looking to find out what options I have as a small, but reputable seller going forward.

THANK YOU all in advance!

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I don't think you can blame ebay for this, I read the post twice and really think it's the way you do business that's at fault, not updating your address and drop shipping, not a good path for a successful ebay business.

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That's the most ridiculous thought process I've EVER heard.. I am a reputable seller, and only sell items I personally have in my own inventory. I've been HAPPY to refund buyers for items purchased, as long as they (if I pay for)  return shipping to me. That way, ALL'S FAIR.... but when eBay plays God and decides to refund buyers ARBITRARILY, that's where ethics draws its line.

And WHAT in the world is wrong with DROP SHIPPING??? I do it with all my vendors in my own business! NEVER had a problem! Especially items "disappearing" the way that item did... for all I know, the seller never even SENT the item, because there was no such person at the address it was "supposed" to  have been delivered to...

[livadia]

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@oystercopy wrote:
There is no one living at the residence, because it is my old house and is on the market for sale. The post office here in the US, regardless of what you pay them, will not forward PARCELS, only mail, so it would not have helped me, which further complicated the problem.

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Are you sure of that @oystercopy?   According to the USPS Domestic Mail Manual, all classes of mail, including packages/parcels can be forwarded.   See Section 2 in this link:  https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/507.htm#ep1113059

[oystercopy]

This is NOT true.. USPS will only forward mail, not magazines, parcels, etc. Anything of bulk will NOT be forwarded. You can't even PAY for it to be forwarded.

[oystercopy]

They had no idea the address was wrong, because I changed it only the next day after I moved. Once again, circumventing a sensible process that protects both buyer and seller was the reason this happened.

[gopetersen]

"Instead, they provided the label IMMEDIATELY on their own, but I had just moved and the item was now being returned to an address I no longer occupied. So, eBay circumventing the process early and providing the label prevented me from changing the label to the proper, new address."

eBay did something similar to me recently. Buyer wanted to return an item that was too small. Before I could find out if she wanted a snail-mail shipping label (some buyers don't have printers) or an email shipping label, eBay issued her a label.

eBay confused her, as well. She didn't use the label right away because the wording eBay sent her made it sound like they were going to snail one to her. Eventually she realized it was a downloadable label, but buyers don't automatically know this. If she had been dealing directly with me, the wording would have been clear and none of the confusion would have happened.

[oystercopy]

I read what you linked, and YES, it does say that they'll forward parcels. But NEVER in my life have I had parcels or magazines, etc. forwarded to any new address I've provided them...? Have YOU? LOL

[fashunu4eeuh]

The two threads i posted were meant to show that refunds sometimes happen without returns, which is what I thought you were debating as not possible. Instead, if i understand correctly, you are debating specifically that a No Refund selling policy is not responsible for a refund without a return.

If that is the case, then I respectfully disagree with you, but wish you well. Don't want to lead the conversation too far away from the OP so I'll leave it there.

[livadia]

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@oystercopy wrote:
I read what you linked, and YES, it does say that they'll forward parcels. But NEVER in my life have I had parcels or magazines, etc. forwarded to any new address I've provided them...? Have YOU? LOL

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@oystercopy, Uh yup.  All of the above.  Every year in fact when going south for the winter and then returning.