Local pickup problems

[tervuren20056]

I've sold my first local pickup item (the item is too large to ship) and have multiple issues.  Please help.  Buyer and I agreed to price and cash upon pickup.  I revised the listing according the Ebay instructions indicating local pickup, cash upon pickup and the agreed to price. Item was always listed as 'local pickup only".  He tried to purchase the item and Ebay charged his Paypal account.  He then mistakenly cancelled the sale.  He emailed me of the mistake.  He wanted to make the purchase and his cancellation was in error.  I called CS to ask how to proceed.  After over an hour on the phone with three different people, they said that he could not make the purchase with cash upon pickup and could only purchase electronically thru Paypal.  In point, if I sold the item to the buyer for local pickup only, cash on pickup I would be in violation of Ebay policies.  They even went on to say that no buyer is allowed to see the item they are buying before they purchase it and accepting cash upon pickup would violate that policy, thus I had to use Paypal.

I contacted the buyer and he said not to cancel the sale, he was okay using Paypal as an electronic payment for the item.  Problem seemed solved.  More fees for seller but what can you do.  We arranged a pick up time, which will be three days after sale.

Now my sold item now says "You need to ship item."  Buyer is traveling from another state to pick up item.   In my sold items list, the item is shown properly as "local pickup".  I now understand Paypal will hold the funds from the sale for 21 days because I have no tracking number.  I'm not happy about that but can live with it.

Everything I have researched on Ebay information pages, contradicts with what CS told me.  I can't find the correct way to conclude this transaction following the Ebay requirements, having been blocked from a local pickup only, cash upon pickup sale and forced to use Paypal.  I don't want to cancel the sale and ask the buyer to bring cash as I might violate some Ebay policy, not to mention the buyer is already traveling to pickup the item.

Help!  What so I do about the shipping issue?  Will I be tagged for Iate shipping even though it is a local pickup item?  I will get a receipt from buyer upon pickup but my understanding is that is not proof of delivery.  Calling CS seems to offer no help.  

Thanks in advance for any guidance you might be able to offer.  I have learned by lesson and will not be listing any local pickup items in the future.  

[themagicmountain]

Thank you for posting this.

Nothing will protect a seller from a Not Received complaint on a local pickup. The computer DOES decide the case, and no video, photographic proof, receipts or anything else will prevent the buyer from filing Not Received, and getting to keep the item and get money back.

[themagicmountain]

Ebay only cares if there is a tracking number acceptable to them that shows it as delivered.

[missjen831]

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@themagicmountain wrote:

Ebay only cares if there is a tracking number acceptable to them that shows it as delivered.

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Incorrect. Again board myth. Both eBay and PayPal buyer exclude local pickups from INR buyer protection. Trinton has stated on several threads that the buyer would be covered by eBay on an INR if it was clear, via eBay messaging, that the seller did not let the buyer pick up the item. On a local pickup, eBay doesn't "only care about a tracking number".

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-to-prove-buyer-received-item-via-local-pickup/td-p/2736570...

[janet9988]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@tervuren20056 wrote:

I'll send the invoice stating local pickup only, marked paid.  It will be a courtesy invoice for the buyer and maybe it will help to document the sale.  Thanks.

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If you offered local pick-up in the listing and that's what the buyer selected when they paid then there is no need to send an invoice. eBay already knows it was a local pick-up order so the MBG no longer applies.

It's a board myth that buyers can win an INR for a local pick-up IF it's done right.

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Then why is ebay telling the seller to ship the item if local pick up was selected?

[slippinjimmy]

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@janet9988 wrote:

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@tervuren20056 wrote:

I'll send the invoice stating local pickup only, marked paid.  It will be a courtesy invoice for the buyer and maybe it will help to document the sale.  Thanks.

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If you offered local pick-up in the listing and that's what the buyer selected when they paid then there is no need to send an invoice. eBay already knows it was a local pick-up order so the MBG no longer applies.

It's a board myth that buyers can win an INR for a local pick-up IF it's done right.

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Then why is ebay telling the seller to ship the item if local pick up was selected?

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I don't know. I do know the OP included this in his first post "I've sold my first local pickup item (the item is too large to ship) ".

If he wasn't shipping it because he can't than it reasonable to assume that Local Pick-Up was the only option.

I've had a few local pick-up orders paid via PayPal, I've always manually marked them as shipped after they are picked-up which is usually pretty fast, certainly faster than eBay would be reminding me I needed to ship it.

Can't say I've ever looked at eBay's alerts about shipping dates, I can figure it out for myself and I manage everything via third-party tools so I don't spend much time looking at My eBay or SM or the Hub.

[tervuren20056]

First I would like to thank all that responded.  I have found a response to jrbyron4580 by trinton@ ebay on 8-18-2017 regarding local pickup.

According to his post, everything CS insisted upon was 100% wrong.  The cash upon pickup was allowed, I was not required to accept an electronic Paypal payment.  The listing stated "local pickup only" as the only shipping option and payment arrangments (cash on pickup) were made between buyer and seller.  I should not be required to provide shipping information, tracking numbers or pay Paypal fees as Paypal was not to be used as the payment method.

He did suggest in his post that the buyer could provide an email confirmation of delivery upon pickup.  I will ask the buyer to do that.

I may try to get the Paypal fees reversed and try to get any demerits to my selling account reversed should they occur.  Apparently I am stuck waiting the 21 days for my funds to be released.  Trying to decide if it's worth the aggravation of dealing with CS misinformation again and what my chances are of actually getting anything fixed.

His post might be worth a read to interested parties providing it is to be relied upon as accurate.

Thanks again.

[*madison]

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@nowthatsjustducky wrote:

The CS you had the misfortune of getting needs fired for outright lying.  Local pickup is one of the few methods where you can overtly accept cash or any other type of payment.

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Yep,  outright lying, or, hasn't got a clue.

Most of my items are pick up items and ebay allows cash on collection in the payment field.

[newnewnewmann]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@themagicmountain wrote:

Ebay only cares if there is a tracking number acceptable to them that shows it as delivered.

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Incorrect. Again board myth. Both eBay and PayPal buyer exclude local pickups from INR buyer protection. Trinton has stated on several threads that the buyer would be covered by eBay on an INR if it was clear, via eBay messaging, that the seller did not let the buyer pick up the item. On a local pickup, eBay doesn't "only care about a tracking number".

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/How-to-prove-buyer-received-item-via-local-pickup/td-p/2736570...

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Thank you for that link to Trinton, I was looking for definitive answers!

-repost paste;

" Community Team trinton@ebay
Re: How to prove buyer received item via local pickup?

Hey everyone, I can see this topic has raised some confusion and I'm happy to clarify any points needed. I generally try to keep my answers concise as longer responses are a) difficult to follow after a certain length and b) can create a series of hypothetical questions that do not apply to the general Community. However, I want to be as transparent and details as possible on this so these are the questions I have seen on this board with accompanying answers:

1. What payment methods are available for local pickup?
While payment upon pickup is an option (cash), an electronic method must also be available to the buyer and this is a perfectly acceptable option for them.

Context for the above answer: Payment through eBay checkout with an eligible method of payment (such as PayPal or a merchant credit card) is required for eBay Money Back Guarantee coverage. While cases for local pickup transactions are rare, it is a best practice for a buyer to pay through eBay checkout so they are eligible should they need to pursue a claim.

2. Is a buyer covered through an item not received claim related to a local pickup transaction?
Yes, in situations where it is clear the seller did not allow the buyer to retrieve the item. These would be based on a clear statement in eBay messages indicating the seller was at fault for this item not being retrieved. Some examples would be messages repeatedly asking to reschedule pickup, messages indicating the seller did not meet the buyer at the agreed upon time and location or messages indicating the seller has no intentions of being available to pickup.

The buyer would not be covered in an item not received case if there was not an indication of seller fault related to the item not received case. While a seller is protected if an item is not retrieved due to buyer fault, if your buyer made a mistake in purchasing a local pickup item or is otherwise unable to retrieve the item from you, a refund would be the right thing to do. I've never seen a situation where a seller was unwilling to take care of their customer when a mistake was made, but I include this statement for the sake of thoroughness.

3. Is a buyer covered through a Return Request or item not as described claim related to a local pickup transaction?

Yes. The coverage is more limited, but is available in certain situations. Examples of covered scenarios include:

• The item cannot be tested upon pickup and instead has to be tested at the buyer's location. A refrigeration unit would be a common example.
• The seller has a return policy and the buyer would like to return the item. For returns related to remorse, the buyer would need to arrange the return themselves.
• The buyer arrives to inspect the item, but it does not match the listing description the seller provided. This may also receive coverage under an item not received case - either would be applicable.
• The seller otherwise invites the return

Examples of situations not covered within a return or not as described claim related to a local pickup transaction:

• Loss or damage in transit - the buyer is liable for what happens to the item in transit in a local pickup transaction unless the seller agreed to ship the item to them. If the seller ships the item to the buyer, the transaction would no longer be considered "local pickup".
• An item found to be defective that could have been tested upon pickup. A lamp would be a common example.

4. If the listing does not list local pickup as an option, but the buyer and seller arrange for local pickup, would the transaction be treated as local pickup.

Yes, as long as this arrangement is made clear in the messages within the eBay system. Note: arranging for local pickup when the listing did not include this option for the buyer can negatively impact your tracking uploaded on time metric, so it may be a best practice to cancel and relist with local pickup presented as an option. We can, however, review any specific transactions where a seller makes accommodations for a buyer if this creates a negative impact on their account and ensure they do not loose Top Rated Status - cancelling for resale would just be an option.

5. Is tracking required for protection in an item not received claim related to local pickup?

No, tracking would not be needed. If the listing has local pickup as a "shipping method" and the buyer selects this, there would be no tracking expected. Likewise, if it is clear in the messages that the buyer and seller arrange local pickup, no tracking would be needed for an item not received case.

6. How does eBay determine if an item was defective before being picked up or if it was made defective while in transit (ie. a bump in the road causes something to become loose, impairing function)?

If an item could be tested before being taken by the buyer, then the buyer would be responsible. If the item could not be tested before being taken by the buyer, then the seller would be responsible. 

Note on this answer: If your item is untestable at your location but also so fragile that it may easily become damaged in transit, it would not be recommended for local pickup. The vast majority of items that cannot be tested at a seller's location would not be this fragile.

7. How does customer service know how to handle local pickup situations? Additionally, and unrelated to local pickup, how does customer service know to handle an item shipped to an address provided via eBay messages?

We have internal references that outline guidelines for case decisions. While not every specific situation will be outlined for public review as this minimizes any abuse of our protection program, there are guidelines in place for employees to review and make a decision. While there are unique situations that do not fall neatly under one policy or another, we have a large amount of experience to draw from when it comes to determining the right decision in a case. If you feel a claim was decided incorrectly, we are here to look over it again and ensure the right decision is made.

8. Is the risk to a seller higher in local pickup transactions vs. standard transactions that involve a shipping method?

No, and in most cases the seller experiences a higher level of protection for local pickup as the buyer has the opportunity to inspect the item before taking it home. Exceptions would include the examples provided in this post.

[hidy-hoo]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@tervuren20056 wrote:

I'll send the invoice stating local pickup only, marked paid.  It will be a courtesy invoice for the buyer and maybe it will help to document the sale.  Thanks.

---

If you offered local pick-up in the listing and that's what the buyer selected when they paid then there is no need to send an invoice. eBay already knows it was a local pick-up order so the MBG no longer applies.

It's a board myth that buyers can win an INR for a local pick-up IF it's done right.

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Yup, and from reading this thread it looks as if we need to call Myth Busters  as misinformation is still being posted.  @18704d @themagicmountain ~ I know that you are only trying to help, but please read the quote from Trinton as to the proper way to set up a LPO and how they are handled when a dispute arises.  

Here are the guidelines for a local pickup only listing:

Seller protection when listing as local pickup only:

• Use the local pickup only listing option which states no shipping and to contact seller for payment options 
• Specify "no returns" in you listing
• If the buyer uses PayPal to pay, make sure that you make pickup arrangements through eBay messages as this will prevent an INR from being won
• If you are selling something that is electronic or has moving parts, make sure that the buyer can see the widget working at time of pickup and acknowledges that fact through eBay messages at time of pickup
• Cash is King 

[nc-daydreamer]

brian@ebay.com, alan@ebay, @Anonymous

Please step in to clarify this situation (and if needed, get the CSR's on track with the correct info)?

Thanks.

[hidy-hoo]

Hi, nc-daydreamer...the local pickup question regarding INR has been answered in detail with the repost of Trinton's reply in another thread...see post #23 ~ but from OP's original post:

*SNIP*

"Now my sold item now says "You need to ship item."  Buyer is traveling from another state to pick up item.   In my sold items list, the item is shown properly as "local pickup".  I now understand Paypal will hold the funds from the sale for 21 days because I have no tracking number.  I'm not happy about that but can live with it."

...we do need to find out why eBay is telling OP to ship and also how/why CS could be so wrong on the information that they gave the OP.

[d-k_treasures]

We all need to remember that in these chat replies, the word 'would' needs to be interpreted as 'should'.

[janet9988]

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@hidy-hoo wrote:

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@tervuren20056 wrote:

I'll send the invoice stating local pickup only, marked paid.  It will be a courtesy invoice for the buyer and maybe it will help to document the sale.  Thanks.

---

If you offered local pick-up in the listing and that's what the buyer selected when they paid then there is no need to send an invoice. eBay already knows it was a local pick-up order so the MBG no longer applies.

It's a board myth that buyers can win an INR for a local pick-up IF it's done right.

---

Yup, and from reading this thread it looks as if we need to call Myth Busters  as misinformation is still being posted.  @18704d @themagicmountain ~ I know that you are only trying to help, but please read the quote from Trinton as to the proper way to set up a LPO and how they are handled when a dispute arises.  

Here are the guidelines for a local pickup only listing:

Seller protection when listing as local pickup only:

• Use the local pickup only listing option which states no shipping and to contact seller for payment options 
• Specify "no returns" in you listing
• If the buyer uses PayPal to pay, make sure that you make pickup arrangements through eBay messages as this will prevent an INR from being won
• If you are selling something that is electronic or has moving parts, make sure that the buyer can see the widget working at time of pickup and acknowledges that fact through eBay messages at time of pickup
• Cash is King 

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

brian.t@ebay

Good afternoon Brian,

Two Chats ago (11/15) you were going to look into the Local Paick up questions I had and email me with some feedback,  if you sent an email I did not see it. Here's the fer from 11/15 for your convenience.

@mr_lincoln wrote:

Local Pick up questions:

1. I recently had a local pick up sale and messaged the Buyer to ask if my address comes up for them to find me ... they said no and then included their cell phone number in the message.  Fortunately, we have not received any messages about sharing personal info, selling off the site or account closures or restirctions.  BUT, this begs the question, is it okay once a Local Pick up order has been placed for the Seller to 1) message the Buyer with personal contact info as well as the address, 2) mention Seller will send a letter in the mail with the contact info, etc.. 

1. On a non-Local Pickup sale the Buyer's email address is available in PayPal but on this recent one for me the Buyer's email did not appear in the PayPal transaction ... is that normal?

1. Paying cash:  okay, a while ago I asked that when a Local Pick up order is placed that payment through paypal be blocked forcing cash at pick up ... since eBay has not effected that change (yet) is it permissible to cancel the PP order, refund the $4 and wait for pick up for the cashola?  That is what I have read here in The Community that others recommend ... is that right and acceptable?

Hi @mr_lincoln, I'm going to get more clarification about questions 1 and 3. I'll send you an email when I have more details.

I believe PayPal is no longer providing contact information within PayPal transactions. You'll want to contact PayPal for a definitive answer, however. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Community-Team-Community-Chat-Nov-29th-1pm...

Hi @mr_lincoln, thanks for following up with me. I actually received answers to these questions recently, though I hadn't sent an email to you just yet. If your listing has the local pickup option and the buyer has committed to buy the item (they use Buy It Now or use the Request total from seller option in the shopping cart) then it is OK and within policy to share contact information before the buyer goes through checkout. This means that paying cash on pickup can be facilitated as well, since checkout isn't required in order to share contact information.

If we see a full refund issued through PayPal and tracking isn't uploaded, a defect will be issued.For this reason, I don't recommend refunding buyers that pay through PayPal.

Regarding the buyers email address in PayPal, my understanding is that PayPal recently made a change and will no longer show the buyers email address. PayPal will have more concrete information about this, however.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@janet9988 wrote:

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@slippinjimmy wrote:

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@tervuren20056 wrote:

I'll send the invoice stating local pickup only, marked paid.  It will be a courtesy invoice for the buyer and maybe it will help to document the sale.  Thanks.

---

If you offered local pick-up in the listing and that's what the buyer selected when they paid then there is no need to send an invoice. eBay already knows it was a local pick-up order so the MBG no longer applies.

It's a board myth that buyers can win an INR for a local pick-up IF it's done right.

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Then why is ebay telling the seller to ship the item if local pick up was selected?

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I don't know. I do know the OP included this in his first post "I've sold my first local pickup item (the item is too large to ship) ".

If he wasn't shipping it because he can't than it reasonable to assume that Local Pick-Up was the only option.

I've had a few local pick-up orders paid via PayPal, I've always manually marked them as shipped after they are picked-up which is usually pretty fast, certainly faster than eBay would be reminding me I needed to ship it.

Can't say I've ever looked at eBay's alerts about shipping dates, I can figure it out for myself and I manage everything via third-party tools so I don't spend much time looking at My eBay or SM or the Hub.

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Out of curiousity, how long would it be before the Ebay message telling you to ship would be generated?

I suppose that would be generated whenever a seller prints postage but does not ship?

[Anonymous]

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@tervuren20056 wrote:

I've sold my first local pickup item (the item is too large to ship) and have multiple issues.  Please help.  Buyer and I agreed to price and cash upon pickup.  I revised the listing according the Ebay instructions indicating local pickup, cash upon pickup and the agreed to price. Item was always listed as 'local pickup only".  He tried to purchase the item and Ebay charged his Paypal account.  He then mistakenly cancelled the sale.  He emailed me of the mistake.  He wanted to make the purchase and his cancellation was in error.  I called CS to ask how to proceed.  After over an hour on the phone with three different people, they said that he could not make the purchase with cash upon pickup and could only purchase electronically thru Paypal.  In point, if I sold the item to the buyer for local pickup only, cash on pickup I would be in violation of Ebay policies.  They even went on to say that no buyer is allowed to see the item they are buying before they purchase it and accepting cash upon pickup would violate that policy, thus I had to use Paypal.

I contacted the buyer and he said not to cancel the sale, he was okay using Paypal as an electronic payment for the item.  Problem seemed solved.  More fees for seller but what can you do.  We arranged a pick up time, which will be three days after sale.

Now my sold item now says "You need to ship item."  Buyer is traveling from another state to pick up item.   In my sold items list, the item is shown properly as "local pickup".  I now understand Paypal will hold the funds from the sale for 21 days because I have no tracking number.  I'm not happy about that but can live with it.

Everything I have researched on Ebay information pages, contradicts with what CS told me.  I can't find the correct way to conclude this transaction following the Ebay requirements, having been blocked from a local pickup only, cash upon pickup sale and forced to use Paypal.  I don't want to cancel the sale and ask the buyer to bring cash as I might violate some Ebay policy, not to mention the buyer is already traveling to pickup the item.

Help!  What so I do about the shipping issue?  Will I be tagged for Iate shipping even though it is a local pickup item?  I will get a receipt from buyer upon pickup but my understanding is that is not proof of delivery.  Calling CS seems to offer no help.  

Thanks in advance for any guidance you might be able to offer.  I have learned by lesson and will not be listing any local pickup items in the future.  

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Hello everyone, it looks like one of my previous posts have been shared to clarify the vast majority of confusion here. I can confirm that it appears that our Customer Service team did provide incorrect guidance regarding cash on pickup, and I will be sure to have this addressed for appropriate coaching. You can check our help page related to selecting a payment method for confirmation that cash is acceptable in person, and our accepted payments policy help page for details on what is available on eBay. While a buyer does need to commit to purchase through checkout to gain access to contact info and arrange inspection, a buyer and seller are welcome to cancel an order if the buyer decides not to purchase the item after looking it over in person. I would recommend that both parties communicate via eBay messaging in a situation like this so eBay is aware of why the cancellation occured.