Just discovered frightening information about Ebay

[ev_healer]

I am in a bitter dispute with my buyer. I have an excellent seller record. I have never had a complaint. I have handled large ticket priced returns with no issues. In this case a few days prior I did a $599 dollar return with NO issues.  Then this one buyer decides to scam me claiming I sent him a different item than pictured.  First he demands some money back. I told him no. Why would I give someone extra money back when I didn't send the broken item he claims I did. Then he threatened my feedback score if I didn't so I told him to open a case if he has an issue with me. That seemed the most protected thing I could reply with. I called Ebay after he trashed my feedback & they restored by removing it. All in total I have spent 6 hours on the phone with Ebay. 4 times reassured I would win the dispute based on my detailed photos and that his claim has even a different serial number than what I sent. Imagine my shock when he won the case & can just "send the broken part back".  

He has heat in his house because of my good part and he going to send me back the broken part he removed to put mine in and I am the one eating the sale.  Folks this is a $200 sale plus about $60 in shipping.  Needless to say I was furious. I called Ebay talked to a supervisor and discovered some frightening things.

First of all your history as a seller and feedback score mean NOTHING to those deciding a case.

All cases are merited by the information of the sale only.  Is that not insane. I have hundreds of good sales and that doesn't count.  He has a feed back of 62.  Really.  My history and return history as a seller makes no difference when deciding a case like this. 

I thought that was what Ebay scores were all about. We all know Ebay tends to rule more for the buyer than the seller but when you have large ticked items these ruling can ruin your back account and in this case my daughters Christmas. This man has threatened me. Tried to extort me. Yet they gave him my part and his money back.  This is not justice.  Yet I know when the part comes I can open a case that they didn't send what I sent back.  That isn't the point.  My point is fair and valid.  Why would a seller with an impecable history who have large ticket returns with no issues suddenly decide to screw over this guy?  I assumed my history was part of judging me as a seller.

I am now considering limiting my Ebay sales to nothing over $50 as I can't afford scam buyers

to ruin my bank account like this.  I am devestated to hear how Ebay decides these cases. I wanted

you all to know that it's shocking to discover this I had no idea and for those of you out there selling please keep that in mind. Your sales history means NOTHING when it comes to deciding a case.

[ev_healer]

The supervisor on the phone said if he sends me back the item as they have told him to do and what I recieve is not what I originally sent that I need to open a claim stating that.  That is what I meant by opening a claim. He said to call them if what I sent is not what he returns.  I am just quoting what they told me at Ebay.  If there is no option for this then he gave me false information.  I have never had to deal with anything like this before. 

[vintagecraze50]

Rack that one up as the cost of doing business and deduct it from your taxes this year, then go on and sell more to, I am sure ,many many many others that you have had wonderful profitably transactions with. Best to the OP, and I am sorry you ran into a possible troll.

[postingid2017]

@ev_healer - without reading any more of the "you should have blah blah blah" and the good old "cookie jar insurance blah blah blah" just remember what goes around comes around.  Your thief buyer may have allegedly gotten away with stealing - no good will come to him/her in the long run.  Karma is just waiting in the shadows.

Sorry that you've had to deal with such a buyer thief.  I've resigned myself for no more selling here and severed my ties with PP - just don't need the aggravation.

[ev_healer]

No I haven't but considering the part he claims I sent isn't the same as in my pics and the serial numbers don't match I doubt this scam artist is going to do the right thing and send me my part back. I am sure he will send the same part he photographed with a different serial number and claimed I sent. Why would he suddenly become honest? I am assuming it won't be my item I agree with that but this buyer has made his intentions very clear from step one. I could have just paid him off to go away but why should I? I am honest and believe that you shouldn't let people like him get away with such actions because they will continue to do to others that way. I guess I am an idiot for standing my ground at this point.

[vintagecraze50]

You do have a case of feedback extortion here and it is definately worth looking into if and when you get the item back. There have been cases won under certain circumstances so I hope it works in your favor. Not all of these people making false claims win the game here. Some get caught because of the way they communicated with you on the transaction. Good Luck.

[ev_healer]

That is what I think I will be doing too. Yes Karma is a .... I am coming to accept the reality of the situation. I also have decided that I will not sell high ticket items anymore. I don't have a lifestyle that can accommodate paying for a thief. If it wasn't for a bigger sale I just made Christmas would be slim for my daughter. This isn't a company I started this is just a hobby I wish I had known all this before this experience. I heard about this kind of stuff but never really thought it was all true. This is insane. LOL Good luck to you and thanks for the reply.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

We all empathize with you. Nobody should be scammed and it sucks that anyone out there behaves this way. However Ebay has business protocols they follow and a lot of them are unpleasant for the sellers. There is no easy way though to both protect buyers AND to protect sellers from scammers at the same time. 

[retrose1 · Accepted solution]

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@ev_healer wrote:

The supervisor on the phone said if he sends me back the item as they have told him to do and what I recieve is not what I originally sent that I need to open a claim stating that.  That is what I meant by opening a claim. He said to call them if what I sent is not what he returns.  I am just quoting what they told me at Ebay.  If there is no option for this then he gave me false information.  I have never had to deal with anything like this before. 

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Dude, you have to stop calling CS....  They are notorious for only telling sellers what they think the sellers want to hear - and most of the time if you follow their advice, your account will suffer for it.

There is NO APPEAL.  If the buyer has been refunded - ebay never takes the money back from a buyer and so they never have to send back anything.  We have seen this over and over.

AND if ebay refunded since you refused - your account has a double whammy defect on it.

Years ago, before the scamming got really bad, I sold a Rolex watch.  When the buyer got it, first he claimed it was broke, then he claimed it was a fake.  Rather than let him scam me, I told him that since he was only a couple of states over, I would drive over with the photos of the watch's id numbers and the jewelers records, a laptop, and a police officer and we would pick it up and I would refund them the minute I get my watch back in my hands.  Amazingly, the watch worked and was real and I never heard from his blocked but again.

You might try that.  Tell him that you will be over to pick up your part with a police officer to check to see that the serial numbers of the part that is in his furnace matches the one you put on the stolen property report you will make against him.

[ev_healer]

Now this I can do. What a fantastic idea.  I could also do so if it came down to it.  If they find his furnace has a part with my serial number then it would be mail fraud as well which is a federal crime. I just may have to make this my solution. Thanks for the CS info I didn't know until now how screwed up this whole system really is.  I should have come here from the get go.  

Thanks

[ev_healer]

While on the phone with Ebay I was transferred to report the buyer.  They took the report and looked at the messages he sent and said that his behavior was being reported.  I also got the negative feedback removed because of the threat.  They were at least able to do that for me. 

[centexcompsvcs]

femmefan1946:

“Frankly, I think the buyer is in the right.

For some reason, the part you sent him does not work.

Maybe it was damaged in transit.

Maybe he broke it while installing it.”

Woodyscollectibles: “I agree”

Really???

Buyer did this:

1. Tried to extort a partial refund from seller/OP two separate times, with the threat of trashing OP’s feedback profile. All to no avail. Seller did not cave and was able to have subsequent negative FB removed.
2. After his partial refund extortion attempts failed negative FB removed, buyer then filed a SNAD case, claiming that the motor did not work. To buttress his claim “the buyer supplied pictures of the broken motor…. The problem is the pictures he supplied didn't match the serial numbers of my [seller’s] item.”

Tunicaslot: “There are a multitude of numbers on the product and we have no idea if a diff. number was mentioned or not. The buyer may be dyslexic for all we know.”

How do we know that the product has a” multitude of numbers”? It does quite likely have a few numbers, Part #, Lot #, MFG date etc, but I guarantee you, it has one and only one distinctive MFG serial number. This unique serial number identifies the motor for warranty purposes.

We certainly do have an idea if a different serial number was mentioned. Seller /OP spent several hours on the phone with an eBay CS person, from the OP’s initial post:

“All in total I have spent 6 hours on the phone with Ebay. 4 times reassured I would win the dispute based on my detailed photos and that his claim has even a different serial number than what I sent”.

Whether or not the buyer is dyslexic is irrelevant. He can certainly tell a blown furnace motor from a new furnace motor.

The fact is that this buyer filed a false SNAD claim, supported by pictures of a broken motor with a serial number different from that shown in the OP’s listing. A quick perusal of the OP/Seller’s profile shows 100% positive, buying and selling FB since 2012. Compare that to this buyer’s 62 total FB count.

Looking at the OP’s HVAC parts listings, all of them are/were listed as NEW, other in box. with clear, detailed pictures. Why all of the sudden would this seller, send out a “Broken” furnace motor?

This buyer is well versed and quite knowledgeable with eBay’s MBG. He is especially familiar with eBay’s proclivity to rule the majority of disputes in favor of the buyer, despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. This buyer displayed his keen knowledge of the eBay “buyer-skewed” MBG program with this statement:

"I will just keep the part and give you a bad feedback I am the buyer you are just the seller"

Still think this buyer is “right”?

This is not a buyer at all. This is a scammer, who adeptly used both the eBay MBG program and a few less than- knowledgeable CS agents to aid and abet his planned fraud from the get-go.

[stonevintage]

Yea, you were transferred and received action.  95% of these "sales gone wrong" sellers come here to say they were shut down by CUSTOMER SERVICE REPS.

CUSTOMER SERVICE REPS for EBAY are NOT EBAY EMPLOYEES. They are a 3rd party out of USA center that are able to turn away a great majority of EBAY complaints from sellers... That's their job.

You got results because one of those customer service reps judged your problem valid enough to actually transfer you to EBAY TRUST & SAFETY.  There, they are able to look at your record and the buyers record and make an actual judgment.

This is for other sellers that don't pursue resolution in their favor when they know their right..... and take no from CSR's as final.....

NEVER, NEVER consider your answer to a problem as a seller from what ANY EBAY CUSTOMER SERVICE REP TELLS YOU.  Until you get transferred to EBAY

TRUST & SAFETY DEPT - NO EBAY EMPLOYEE looks at your or the buyers history.  The rest is all stock script.

[touchdownarkansas]

This is exactly why I only sell things that I don't care about. I make most of my inventory but sometimes I buy lots of craft items. I bought a box full of brand new craft embossing cartridges for an amazing price. I kept 3 different ones that equaled the value of the price I paid so that the others were extras. I had never started an auction at 99 cents before so I did that just for fun. It did sell for 99cents and I sent it to them without a problem. I sold a few others at a higher price but still a good price, cheaper than everyone else. I have not sold them all because I have been sick and not selling. Other things I have to sell are NOS craft items I don't really want. I don't really care what they sell for whenever I start selling again. If my handmade stuff gets stolen whatever I can always make more. I don't count on ebay sales to pay bills so that is an advantage for me. I feel so bad for the sellers that depend on ebay for a living. I am so sorry this happened to you.

[grapplingmonkey]

Ebay is just the middleman giving us the platform for us to sell. And honestly acess to buyers across the country is huge. I think the only way for ebay is to mostly side with the buyers. Can you image if they sided with sellers more. Every scammer would be selling. honest buyers would not buy if there was ever a chance they would get scammed. buyers have the power as they should

With that being said since ebay sets up the rules they need to let sellers have more info and control on potential buyers. New ebay account, want to buy my Rolexs. denied.  Have 50% of purchases return rate. denied. Atleast let me make educated choices for my buissness.  Ebay has the info share it with your sellers, we as sellers need more info on buyers. esspecialy if in general ebay will side with buyers.

Let me approve buyers on items i deem expensive enough, i get i would have some buyers skip over my listing and goto someone else but so would scammers. 

[acrc3113]

I too got tired of being stung. The last guy claimed an irreplaceable part, no longer manufactured,  was missing and must have fallen out of the end of the box (which was well secured with threaded tape). The fragile item packed in the middle received no damage and the rods for it did not "fall out"  either. The entire box end would have had to have been torn off for the 1st part to be missing, and the end of the solid foam packing torn off, which was not the case. Kind of funny, the same day he complained, he bought another of the same item, from a different seller, that was missing the part he claimed was missing from my package. After refunding him  75% of the item cost, so he could buy another part,  I cancelled my last listing. Sales are slower on another site I sell on, but I have yet to be ripped off there.