Item sold AS IS with no refund requests accepted, but buyer now wants to return

[tech-x-world]

I recently sold the very rare old unused PC motherboard as Open Box and the description stated: "Selling AS IS with no requests for returns or refunds accepted. By purchasing this item, you agree to this condition." AS IS means that I did not guarantee it was working because it was NEVER turned on and I didn't know this.  The buyer had zero feedback.  The motherboard was delivered on March 3.

Yesterday I saw that I got a  negative feedback from the buyer and then the case was returned against me demanding return because it didn't work.  I asked the buyer for photos and the photo showed the CPU diagnostic LED was red. I suggested that the buyer's CPU could be faulty. He replied that he didn't know. I also asked him twice when exactly did he assemble the PC and he never responded to that question.  I advised him to take his PC to the computer shop to diagnose his CPU or PSU, but he responded within a few minutes that he already went to computer shop and my motherboard is not working. I became suspicious because it is impossible to go to the nearest computer shop and have every component fully diagnosed in just 12 minutes.

The buyer's photos clearly show the other parts which are really old and suggest that he had those parts beforehand and he had the capacity to have the PC assembled on the day of receipt, not 11 days later. What are my options considering the fact that the listing clearly stated AS IS and the possibility that the buyer could have used it for a while and damaged it?

[mtgraves7984]

Sorry this happened to you. Never sell what you can't expect to lose.

It's a tough lesson, but eBay will almost always find with the buyer in a 'Not as Described' case. Double-whammy is the realization that 'AS IS' and 'No Returns' also carry little weight.

[mr_lincoln]

@tech-x-world   First, if the Buyer processes a Not as described return you will be forced to pay the return shipping.  Your conditions of sale do not apply in that case because eBay has a way around the No returns and AS IS setting and comments.

In the future consider Free returns, that gives you (within the guidelines) the ability to withhold up to 50% of the original price, none of the original shipping AND you are protected against less then Positive Feedback.  In your case however, you sold and untested electrical component so unless they Buyer returns it physically broken you will have to refund 100% of the item cost.

The bottom line here is you can not "force" a Buyer to keep something ...

[tech-x-world]

The listing description did not guarantee that it was working. I sold it as a collector's item. Is there a way to appeal the negative feedback?

If I can prove that the buyer damaged it during operation, will eBay still force me to accept return?

[gracieallen01]

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@tech-x-world wrote:

The listing description did not guarantee that it was working. I sold it as a collector's item. Is there a way to appeal the negative feedback?

If I can prove that the buyer damaged it during operation, will eBay still force me to accept return?

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Yes (because you can not prove it to ebay's satisfaction) - if the buyer opened a 'not as described' or 'damaged'.  That is the Money Back Guarantee.  With those conditions - either - on ebay, there is no such thing as 'No Return', unless you don't want the item back, but you still have to refund.  No Return does not equate to No Refund.

[slippinjimmy]

You listed it incorrectly!

The listing shows this in the condition section:

Open box: An item in excellent, new condition with no wear. The item may be missing the original packaging or protective wrapping, or may be in the original packaging but not sealed. The item includes original accessories. The item may be a factory second. See the seller's listing for full details and description

Your small print one line disclaimer in the description is meaningless and unenforceable.

If you had listed it "for parts only" you might have been able to win (but you probably never would have sold it for $470).

[fab_finds4u]

Everything is as is or otherwise it would be as isn't.  As is described not tested means you're  leaving  it to the buyer to figure out if it works.   The buyer doesn't have to troubleshoot or figure why it's not working.  You'll  be forced to refund if eBay is asked to help and you'll get a defect for having a case unresolved by the seller.  If you want the item back issue a return label and refund when it's returned.

[tech-x-world]

How did you see for how much it sold?

It cost so much because it's very rare item and it's even rarer to find it unused.

[fashunu4eeuh]

One cannot sell an untested item on eBay unless it is listed as For Parts Not Working, and even then selling untested goods is a bad idea. Selling this motherboard as Open Box means it is in new, working condition. In other words, your listing was misleading at best and the negative will stand. As a newer, infrequent seller (on this account), it is important to know what all the eBay terms and conditions mean, as well as rules and policies, prior to listing especially when it is an expensive item. There are pitfalls to online selling and about the only way to mitigate one's risk is to know as much as possible about the platform.

It would have been better to not respond at all to the negative, as opposed to responding with an aspersion that the buyer was at fault. This does not reflect well on you as a seller. The follow-up comment is a valuable piece of real estate in the eBay landscape. Because one negative will not dissuade a new buyer, but an ill-conceived reply by the seller most definitely can. Given that the buyer left it in a foreign language, very few would have bothered to look it up to begin with. Your remark casts blame on the buyer rather than offering a solution or expressing an earnest concern that could have shown future buyers how they can expect you to behave if a transaction goes unexpectedly south.

It is too late now to cut your losses. If the buyer opens a Not As Described case, your listing terms are superceded by eBay's terms. You will have to pay for the item to be returned, if you want it, and then refund in full when it arrives. If you do not okay the return, then eBay will remove your payment to refund the buyer, and then level a defect on your account. A few of those and your selling privileges can be altered or suspended, sometimes for good with no appeal. When you listed your first item for sale here, you approved this method as well as agreed to all the terms in the User Agreement and eBay policies. Below are links to the Money Back Guarantee and the UA for your perusal. Sorry this happened to you the hard way. Hang in there.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

[fashunu4eeuh]

A few other thoughts:

"...I asked the buyer for photos and the photo showed the CPU diagnostic LED was red..."

A buyer does not have to send photos or otherwise prove the item is not working in order to win a Not As Described claim. Ebay does not require it.

"...What are my options considering the fact that the listing clearly stated AS IS and the possibility that the buyer could have used it for a while and damaged it?"

Even if the buyer has caused the damage or is lying, the chances are still excellent that the buyer will win the NAD claim. However in this case, since the motherboard was untested, you have no proof that the buyer did something to cause it to not work because you do not know if it was working or not when it was sent. Even then, there could be shipping damage, which the seller is held responsible for as well by eBay. The only way you could be made whole is if the item was damaged in shipping and you had purchased shipping insurance. If that were the case, you would still need to know if the product was working prior to shipping. 

Also, keep in mind that PayPal's Buyer Protection program allows 180 days for a buyer to open a Not As Described claim. Or that, if paid by credit card, a buyer can also appeal directly to their cc company to do a chargeback should they not receive satisfaction thru eBay or PayPal. So it is in the seller's best interests to know exactly what they are selling and whether or not an item is in working condition. There is no such thing as "Buyer beware" on eBay. It is the seller that is taking all the risks. And the time to assess one's risk tolerance is prior to listing the item. Not everything is suitable for selling here once the risks are identified.

Ebay does offer some seller protections, but for the most part, eBay has the buyer's interests at the forefront. It is up to each seller to protect themselves as best as can be accomplished.

[mam98031]

There is no such thing on Ebay on listings for "As Is".  

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request.  Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.

[tech-x-world]

My item cost high because it was unused and in addition to high monetary price, also had the value of being rare. Now the buyer returns it in used condition and my item has lost both high monetary price and the value of being rare. I am disappointed that things did not go as I had been hoping. Probably should have cancelled the order by the zero-feedback buyer and instead make explicit disclaimer that the item was intended for the collectors.

Some people sell sealed video game cartridges/discs for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. They costs so much because they are rare and even harder to find in unused condition. So anyone can just buy sealed Nintendo cartridge from a collector for $5000, use them and then return it as damaged. But the seller takes a huge hit. This is not fair.

[tech-x-world]

The buyer opened Item Arrived Damaged case. The photo shows that the buyer has installed 1200W PSU and liquid cooling in the build. These things are used mainly for overclocking. I find it suspicious that he has never responded to my questions when did he install the motherboard, and after I suggested to take the build to the computer shop for diagnostics, he responded in only 12 minutes that he had done so which is very unlikely to do in just 12 minutes. If he really wanted my help, he should have listened to my sound advice; but no, he was somehow sure without diagnosing other components that the culprit was my motherboard while my former motherboard indicates a problem with the buyer's CPU. 

[eunster1313]

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 14 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
5. 14 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
6. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
7. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns

[gracieallen01]

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@tech-x-world wrote:

The buyer opened Item Arrived Damaged case. The photo shows that the buyer has installed 1200W PSU and liquid cooling in the build. These things are used mainly for overclocking. I find it suspicious that he has never responded to my questions when did he install the motherboard, and after I suggested to take the build to the computer shop for diagnostics, he responded in only 12 minutes that he had done so which is very unlikely to do in just 12 minutes. If he really wanted my help, he should have listened to my sound advice; but no, he was somehow sure without diagnosing other components that the culprit was my motherboard while my former motherboard indicates a problem with the buyer's CPU. 

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Unfortunately, there is no way for you to prove any of that to ebay.  The buyer doesn't have to e-mail you, respond to questions, send photos, or anything else other than file for return.   ebay doesn't look at photos and they work on a he said/she said basis, with the benefit of the doubt going to the buyer.  What's more, there is no way for you to prove what you sent to the buyer.    No, it's not fair - to the seller.  In a prefect world, there would be fair - this isn't a perfect world.