It finally happened

[myboardid]

After nearly 22 years of selling here in a category where buyers are generally honest and enthusiastic collectors, I have finally been scammed and have basically no recourse at all.  It's not the first time, but it has been a very long time. 

This was an empty box scam, and not even done with finess, but there is no way to fight this one.  The buyer claimed the item was missing from its original box, inside the shipping carton.  Of course I shipped a full box, and the weight of the package indicated that.  No thief is going to bother to open the outer box, then open the inner box, then package it all up again to look like it was untouched. 

Six messages and an opened return case in 4 hours.  Poor writing skills.  I refunded (not going to pay to ship back an empty carton), reported and blocked the buyer, told him I was going to get the post office involved, but we all know that will not get any positive results.  Especially since this address was in New York City. 

I am not happy about loosing the money, but I have been very lucky for a long time and have not been successfully scammed since I took a couple of bad checks way back when...

[hollysfinds]

I'm so sorry that this happened to you.

I really believe what goes around comes around.

It may seem like people like this get it over on people, 

but in the end they do not.

We all will have to answer one day for what we do in this life.

[dazzlecity]

happened to me too last month - sold a box with 3 in it - buyer claimed only 2 - she sent it back - I refunded her - there is absolutely no point in fighting with eBay so I didn't even go there. Although I do always find it interesting that eBay would side with the buyer who spends $50 a year here over the seller that's been plugging away at it for 20 years. It is what it is.  Still better than running a B&M

Here's what I figured - in 20 years this one was not the first but really the dumbest on the part of the buyer - put her on my block bidder list both stores and if in 20 years - (the item was $21.95) - I figure it averages out to like $1.25 per year even with the postage lost - so there you go. I'm not going bankrupt over $1.25 per year and I moved on.

[callahanmagic]

Whether such happenings occur to newbies or experienced sellers - it is always rough to reconcile.  

We shared your loss and if you would share the thief’s ID via PM - I’ll be grateful and add to wife’s BBL.  

-

Lucas

*still rollin’ with the punches*

[patd3283]

Thought No. 1 on this scam list was interesting!

https://www.businessinsider.com/scams-people-most-likely-fall-for-online-2019-10

[threshold.sales.group]

Fortunately, empty box and switcheroo's are relatively rare and with people being creatures of habit the scammers never stop with just one, so reporting is a must. Up front, how many legit buyers report multiple empty box claims? From different sellers, each with no previous history of trouble? IMO, After their first bite of the apple a real scammer should be easy for eBay to identify - 

[cashvaluerecovery2011]

This is why its so rampant. People dont fight back because of the hassle. Thief continues and tells friends. They always run in the same crowds. Ebay appreciates the fees and lets the buyer continue unreported.

[myboardid]

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@cashvaluerecovery2011 wrote:
This is why its so rampant. People dont fight back because of the hassle. Thief continues and tells friends. They always run in the same crowds. Ebay appreciates the fees and lets the buyer continue unreported.

I'd fight back if I could but there is no way for me to prove it, nothing eBay would accept as proof that I sent a full box.  They don't care if the buyer's story is ridiculously unlikely, they always take the buyer's side. 

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[myboardid]

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@threshold.sales.group wrote:

Fortunately, empty box and switcheroo's are relatively rare and with people being creatures of habit the scammers never stop with just one, so reporting is a must. Up front, how many legit buyers report multiple empty box claims? From different sellers, each with no previous history of trouble? IMO, After their first bite of the apple a real scammer should be easy for eBay to identify - 

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This buyer is new, has only 5 feedback, opened a few days ago.  I figure he burned his last (however many) IDs and started a new one. 

[mr_lincoln]

@myboardid   I get it that you don't care to spend any time fighting the scam and I agree that the new ID might be a multiple one from the Buyer ... and I can respect that you don't want to give the lost cause any more time but there might be value in calling Home Office and Reporting the Buyer and letting eBay know you suspect that the Buyer has other "associated" accounts that they have done this sort of thing before.  It also lets eBay know there is a potential problem with this Buyer and the eBay support team has told us they do take the reports seriously ... keep in mind they will not divulge what if anything they ever do ...

Is it possible to Follow Buyers?

[galfam]

mr lincoln You got me thinking that if Ebay would start a campaign to "out" the IDs of scammers ( buyers and sellers) and make it known that they were getting on top of it --- what a game changer that would be! That would be a better selling point than the ads they have run lately.  If people thought they were being watched by Ebay they might think twice about scams. Even a warning with a return label  that the return box had to weigh the same as the original or no refund would be issued would stop a few from that scam. ( even though it would be impossible to enforce ). 

But unfortunately its easier for them to claim that is the cost of doing business ..... 

[vintagecraze50]

If you can never send multiple items in one box with 1 tracking number. I have had even repeat customers that come back over and over and I never chance it with multiples in one box. Everything has too has a signature as well.

[vintagecraze50]

I am assuming here that you are an excellent seller with a fantastic rep being here as long as you have and perhaps you need to work on a courtesy refund from Ebay on this one.

[mr_lincoln]

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@galfam wrote:

mr lincoln You got me thinking that if Ebay would start a campaign to "out" the IDs of scammers ( buyers and sellers) and make it known that they were getting on top of it --- what a game changer that would be! That would be a better selling point than the ads they have run lately.  If people thought they were being watched by Ebay they might think twice about scams. Even a warning with a return label  that the return box had to weigh the same as the original or no refund would be issued would stop a few from that scam. ( even though it would be impossible to enforce ). 

But unfortunately its easier for them to claim that is the cost of doing business ..... 

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You are touching on a point I have made and I believe others had made as well ... its called "deterrence" ... during the Cold War it kept countries from launching nuclear weapons at each other ... okay, that's a bit dramatic BUT the same thing applies here ... with the strength of Social Media AND to quote you, "Ebay would start a campaign to 'out' the IDs of scammers ( buyers and sellers) and make it known that they were getting on top of it --- what a game changer that would be!"  I think the word would get out very quickly that you can't scam on  eBay.  Hey, these are criminals pure and simple ... I mean what is the difference if they shop lift in a store or scam online when the end result is stealing the item without paying for it ... shop lifting has been reduced with various forms of "deterrence" ( security cameras, signs posted that they have security cameras, undercover employees walking the isles, special tags on items and sensors at Exits, etc.).  Deterrence for online theft requires a little different approach but I think in the end it could be greatly reduced. 

[vintagecraze50]

It would be fairly easy if people kept opening different accounts from the same IP address. That IP could be tracked. But, if people are operating from multiple IP addresses that could be difficult. If someone here is an IT specialist and can chime in on how this exactly could be done then that would be helpful. I do not have that knowledge but the way IT is transforming I am certain there will be a way to do this if it already might exist.