Is eBay Using AI To Alter Seller Images For External Search?

[valueaddedresource]

I brought this up on a previous thread about eBay Open but for anyone who missed it, during the Q&A at the end of the "Search Best Practices from eBay & Google" session,  Senior Manager eBay Advertising, Alan Feder, said that eBay is working on how to use AI to remove seller watermarks to provide a clean image to Google while maintaining the image with watermarks for on eBay search. 

A seller asked what they can do to protect their IP/make sure others don't steal their photos but not be blocked by Google after earlier comments in the session about how much Google doesn't like watermarks.

Here's what Alan said:

"We're actually trying to leverage some AI technology between both Google and eBay to say like well if you guys submitted a bunch of pictures with watermarks, we don't want to go back and ask you to correct them, can we correct them ourselves? We keep the watermark version on eBay and then we have a non-watermarked version that we send to Google, so that doesn't get rejected."

"So we're trying to mitigate that, but it's absolutely a huge issue with watermarks, logos, text, brand names...anything that's not a picture of the item just don't put on there."

Not only did that not really answer the seller's question, it's pretty alarming imo if eBay actually is or is planning to use AI to alter the seller provided image without notification or disclosure to either the seller or (presumably) the buyer.

That would present potential IP rights violations and of course could also cause Item Not As Described issues if the AI altered image doesn't exactly and precisely represent the actual item being sold.

And today at the Goldman Sachs Communacopia + Technology Conference, CEO Jamie Iannone appears to have confirmed that eBay is using AI to alter seller images for external search/Offsite Ads.

When asked about ads, Jamie said (emphasis mine):

"We have the original format we launched ten years ago—promoted listings general, our CPA continues to be our largest contributor to growth. We’re leaning into new formats like promoted stores and promoted offsite, helping drive new growth."

"It's another area where we're able to leverage AI to drive the experience. For example, we're using AI in recommendations and search technologies to drive more relevant listings."

"We're able to use it to actually change images for promoted offsite, putting more compelling and compliant images out there to help our sellers promote offsite - buying ads on third parties like Google through eBay - because they're able to leverage all our AI expertise."

I asked last month and didn't get a response but I'll try again - devon@ebay  kyle@ebay  elizabeth@ebay  - can you please check with the appropriate team(s) to confirm if eBay is actively altering seller images sent to Google using AI and get more details for us if so?

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@valueaddedresource Just curious: do you have a link to a transcript or replay of Jamie's Goldman presentation. I had forgotten that was today.

[valueaddedresource]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques sorry I don't have a link, had to transcribe it myself.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@valueaddedresource  OK, thanks, and thanks for all the work you do for the reselling community!

[valueaddedresource]

So I decided to do some investigating on my own on this and can confirm that at least in some cases eBay is altering seller provided images for external Google search and ad placement.

Here's just one example I was able to find:

This item has all the seller created watermarking & added text still visible on the item page & within onsite eBay search results.

But if you find that same exact eBay listing shown in Google Shopping, it does not include that part of the picture.

At first I thought maybe eBay just cropped the image to remove the watermarking & text, but comparing them side by side shows other changes - like the shadow from the box in the original image that is not shown in the Google image.

So the image has definitely been altered and while in this example it's minor enough that it likely wouldn't cause issues, that may not always be the case - not to mention that both eBay and Google are likely skating on thin ice here by not disclosing to consumers and sellers that the image may be altered by AI.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

Who says that Ebay is not trying to live with its sellers

The Picture Policy

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/picture-policy?id=4370&st=3&pos=1&query=Picture%...

Which includes

What is the policy?

The following are not allowed:

• Photos that don't accurately represent the item
• Placeholder images used to convey messages
• Stock photos for used, damaged, or defective items
• Photos with added borders
• Photos with added text, artwork or marketing material
• Watermarks of any type, including those used for ownership attributions

Perhaps it might be easier for Ebay to zap out all images which violate the picture policy. Too high a risk of a watermark obfuscating an important part of the picture.

[hartungcards]

You need to stop scaring the bejesus out of us.

[valueaddedresource]

Also important to note that eBay's official Picture Policy still says that watermarks are not allowed.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/picture-policy?id=4370

But back in 2018, eBay had said they weren't going to enforce it and for the most part at least onsite, they still don't really enforce it these days to my knowledge.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Watermark-Removal-Policy-Enforcement-Update/ba-p/2780374...

 

I very specifically remember that announcement because at the time I was working at a company that sold in Motors Parts & Accessories categories and remember it was P&A sellers who were largely the ones giving pushback on this - and since P&A is one of eBay's biggest categories with over $10B in annual GMV, eBay couldn't really afford to push the issue.

But they left the policy page as it is and I believe this is at least one reason why - there is a vague section in the User Agreement which likely provides legal CYA for this image editing due to the fact that, technically, having watermarks is still a policy violation.

While that likely provides legal cover, that doesn't mean altering seller images to remove watermarks without providing explicit and direct notice is right, ethical or in line with eBay's Business Code of Conduct  or "Responsible AI Principles" - and not being more transparent about it at the very least doesn't do much to help foster goodwill and positive seller sentiment, imo.

Not to mention it's not entirely clear whether that User Agreement would protect eBay from consumer claims for not disclosing the image shown in Google may be altered.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@tobaccocardyahoo 

What I find most interesting is that technically the watermarks/added text, etc is a violation of ebay rules.

And ebay has now demonstrated that they are perfectly capable of removing these watermarks.

So, why not remove them from both Google AND ebay?

Or, change the ebay rule, and permit watermarking? 

[valueaddedresource]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques if I had to take a stab at guessing at an answer to you question....obfuscation and hiding behind vague user agreement legalese was the path of least resistance (and also least ethics/ honesty in my opinion.)

While watermarking can be seen in pretty much any category, I would not be surprised at all to find out it is likely most prevalent in Motors P&A by a fairly wide margin, especially amongst larger sellers.

I remember what a big deal it was in 2017/2018 when eBay said they were going to enforce this with many sellers saying there was simply no way they could or would edit tens of thousands of their item images to comply and that if eBay went forward with enforcement either the sellers would stop selling here or many of their items would just not be visible due to the enormous time suck burden of having to edit all those pics.

So I suspect eBay simply decided to act like they were listening to feedback/throwing sellers a bone by not enforcing it while quietly finding ways to "fix" the Google issue on their side and not changing anything onsite so as not to make anything too obvious or ruffle any feathers - but keeping legal CYA intact for just in case the need should ever arise.

[meme6253]

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[meme6253]

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[chapeau-noir]

@valueaddedresource  I remember the watermark discussion very well - IIRC, there was also discussion of transparency of watermarks (i.e., opaque, 50% transparency, 20%, etc.). I knew one seller who actually slapped her watermark right in the middle of the item she was selling (her photos were nothing to write home about, so I expect it was to protect the hand-crafted items she was selling, which were extremely nice, from having the photos copied and the items pirated). She was trying to hit a balance of unobtrusive but obvious, but issue was never resolved. I got the impression that it was too vexed to deal with. 

[valueaddedresource]

@chapeau-noir  yep, handmade items are probably the other largest source of watermarks and I definitely can't blame those sellers for wanting to prevent photo theft - especially the ones who also sell on Etsy and may have experience issues there where their legit listings are taken down because Etsy's AI detects their images are being used elsewhere and thinks that means they the ones not following policies.

I wasn't able to find any that had a watermark over the actual item in the time I had to dig into it today but might dig deeper over the next few days to see if I can find any or if anyone here has some examples like that, feel free to send them over.

It would be interesting to see if eBay is able to remove those watermarks and if so, does it change other things about the item image or if not, is that a situation where those items are just being blocked or not sent to Google if they have a watermark.