If you're curious about how 'up to 50% refund deduction' works

[gurlcat]

I never used the feature before, but recently I had an opportunity to try it because a buyer returned a mixed lot of jewelry but kept 4 of the 53 pieces.  Honestly I'm just surprised that has never happened to me before.  And it was 4 of the better pieces, but for the refund deduction I just treated all pieces as equal, in other words she didn't return about 7% of what I sent, so I issued 93% of her purchase price.  That was on the 10th and that 7% is still on hold in my funds.  So I decided to ask a chat agent about it. 

As you can see this went LONG, because once we got started I realized this could be shareable information, so one question led to the next.  Yes I Karen'ed out on poor Aaron a couple times, but he was a good sport.  As you'll see he didn't truly answer a few of my questions and I'm still not sure what to believe about the Top Rated Seller part.  But anyone who's done a <100% refund before, please chime in, especially if you did it WITHOUT being a TRS.  

(I deleted the intro junk; this first message is from me)
I deducted a portion of the refund that I issued to the buyer about a week ago. The deduction amount remains on 'hold' in my seller funds. I can't find anything in the return details that says when that hold will be lifted. It was order number (redacted).

05:56:20 UTC Aaron

Thank you so much Audrey and good news on this! There is no problem at all on why the funds were put on hold, let me explain this for you.

05:56:43 UTC gurlcat

Aaron, I am not asking "why"

05:56:55 UTC gurlcat

Please read my words carefully.

05:57:31 UTC Aaron

Yes Audrey. I get you on this and that why would explain as when the funds would be released for this order.

05:57:42 UTC gurlcat

ok

05:59:21 UTC Aaron

You have your partial refund tools which allows you to issue a partial refund to your buyer. This is a benefit that we give to sellers for being top rated the offers free returns. As an advantage for you, once you issue a full refund then we will be backing up the difference of the refund and your buyer would have 10 business days to reach out to us for the difference to be issued to them. If they reach out to us right away then this would be released right away as the case will close.

06:00:10 UTC Aaron

If the buyer would not reach out to us for the difference of the refund then the case will close after 10 business days and the funds would be released from the date when the partial refund was issued.

06:00:54 UTC gurlcat

Where can I find that information? It was not stated in the Help page.

06:02:38 UTC Aaron

This is actually an information that we share to our top rated sellers Audrey and this cannot be seen on the help and contact page. Consider yourself as VIP and would only get this information through eBay customer service.

06:03:27 UTC gurlcat

Why would it take a buyer 10 days to decide if they want to appeal the refund amount?

06:04:42 UTC Aaron

That would be the given time Audrey for buyers as we understand that not all members are able to open their account right away and a chance being given to them as well to be fair to all members here as eBay always gives a deep understanding and trust to their members.

06:05:27 UTC Aaron

Though if you want, you can message the buyer about this as well to speed up the case and be closed right away.

06:05:46 UTC gurlcat

How could the buyer speed it up?

06:06:48 UTC Aaron

By reaching out to us for the decision of the refund because we will be backing up the difference of the refund for you for if the buyer is eligible. The case will close right away once decided and the funds would be released to you sooner.

06:08:02 UTC gurlcat

Ha. I am picturing what to say. "Hello buyer, I know you are probably angry that you did not get a 100% refund, but would you please respond to the case so I can have the money that I denied you?"

06:08:59 UTC gurlcat

I cannot imagine what the buyer's motivation would be. If she knows I have to wait, she is probably happy about it.

06:09:43 UTC gurlcat

Okay, anyway Aaron, what is her last date to appeal?

06:09:59 UTC Aaron

Actually Audrey, there is a better way to say this and that would be" Greetings! The partial refund was issued to you for this order and I have stated the deductions for this return but have no worries as you are to be covered once found eligible and you can reach out to eBay right away for the difference of the refund."

06:10:33 UTC Aaron

Also for that question, the last day would be on December 25 Audrey .

06:10:33 UTC gurlcat

But why would I WANT her to reach out for the rest of the refund?

06:11:27 UTC Aaron

I do get you on this Audrey that is why the buyer should also realized this on their end and an ample time has been given to them. If they still won't reach out then the case will no close and no more appeals will be permitted.

06:12:10 UTC gurlcat

So is she also waiting to receive the portion that I refunded her?

06:13:47 UTC Aaron

No Audrey. The case is still open because we are waiting for your buyer to reach out to us for the difference of the refund as we will be backing this up for you. If they won't reach out for the difference of the refund and has no complaint on the refund then the case would be expire after 10 business days and it will close right away.

06:14:40 UTC gurlcat

Okay I still don't understand why I should ask her to appeal to get the rest of this money. That sounds crazy Aaron.

06:15:35 UTC Aaron

I do get you on that Audrey. I totally understand your point on that as well but that was only a suggestion to speed up the case if you would want it.

06:16:27 UTC gurlcat

December 25th is Christmas. Are you sure that is the correct date?

06:17:17 UTC Aaron

Hold on Audrey. Apologies for the confusion and that should be on the 26th. Deeply sorry for the typo.

06:17:49 UTC gurlcat

So on December 27th, the money will move from Hold to Available?

06:18:58 UTC Aaron

Yes Audrey. That is correct, the case would close and the funds would be released from hold and would now be available.

06:20:08 UTC gurlcat

Thank you so much Aaron. I realize I put you through a lot, but this is my first time using the partial refund feature. So I wanted to be sure I completely understand how it works. Not just for me but the many people I correspong with in the eBay Commu

06:20:26 UTC gurlcat

Community forums, and on social media. It is a mystery to many people how the feature works.

06:20:59 UTC Aaron

You're most welcome Audrey and no worries as I am always happy to assist. Do you want a well a brief summary on ow the partial refund tool works?

06:21:05 UTC gurlcat

It would be much more helpful if the Return Details page simply showed the date when the case will close, but unfortunately it does not.

06:21:45 UTC gurlcat

yes you can send the summary

06:21:56 UTC Aaron

I do get you on that Audrey and we are currently working eBay's feature as well so that it would improve the customer's experience.

06:22:02 UTC Aaron

Great! Let me compose that.

06:23:57 UTC Aaron

A partial refund tools is given to sellers that offers free returns. Once they received the item back, they have the power to issue a partial refund up to 50% at max. Once they issue a partial refund, the case won't close as the buyer have 10 business days to appeal for the difference of the refund. The difference of the refund as well would be backed up by eBay and would be coming from our own pockets if the buyer is found eligible for a full refund..

06:25:13 UTC Aaron

Additional information as well would be, any partial refund issued would not be taken against the seller as well in any way as this is a benefit and advantage given to our top rated sellers who offers free returns.

06:25:42 UTC Aaron

Partial refund tool as well is only applicable for seller who are top rated and offers free returns Audrey.

06:25:51 UTC gurlcat

What if the seller has free returns but is not a top rated seller?

06:26:05 UTC gurlcat

ok, so it must be BOTH. Correct?

06:26:36 UTC gurlcat

The reason I ask that is because the Help page does not specify that the seller must be a TRS.

06:27:20 UTC Aaron

Yes that is correct Audrey. If they are not a top rated seller then a partial refund tool would not be available and if the seller is top rated but does not offers free returns then there won't be any partial refund tool as well.

06:28:38 UTC gurlcat

Okay now I actually thought of 2 more questions. First one: If eBay will give the buyer a courtesy refund (from your own pockets, as you said) if the buyer appeals .... then WHY is the amount on hold for the seller?

06:30:30 UTC Aaron

Good question Audrey and that would be because if a case is open then the funds of the seller would always be put on hold whatever the reason will be. The case would still be open for 10 days that is why the funds is placed on hold.

06:31:32 UTC Aaron

To be exact, once a partial refund is issued, the case is still open for 10 business days and that is why the funds is still placed on hold.

06:32:08 UTC Aaron

Also, for additional information Audrey. If the funds were put on hold due to a case being opened, it would always be released once the case fully closes.

06:33:39 UTC gurlcat

Okay but usually "hold" means "pending" like the seller might not get the money. But if eBay will automatically cover any appeal amount, what role does the seller still have in the case? Why isn't the case closed for the seller once they have refunded.

06:33:42 UTC gurlcat

?

06:35:37 UTC Aaron

That is also a good question Audrey. Actually the hold means for a case is, the funds are put on hold due to a case being open and it does not mean that the seller would not receive the funds but the funds were put on hold due to the case being opened as for the seller's cooperation.

06:38:12 UTC Aaron

I do get you on this Audrey but once the partial refund is issued, that would remain the case being open for 10 business days and that is why the funds are still placed on hold.

06:39:27 UTC gurlcat

If the buyer appeals, does eBay notify the seller?

06:39:56 UTC Aaron

Yes that is correct! You will be notified right away once the case is closed.

06:40:17 UTC gurlcat

Not once the case is closed, I asked if the buyer appeals.

06:42:13 UTC Aaron

Yes Audrey. Once the buyer reaches for the decision, the case will automatically close because a decision should be made on the contact. That would be a notification because once the case closes, that would mean that the buyer has reached out to us for the difference of the refund.

06:43:09 UTC gurlcat

Okay, so there would be no futher actions for the seller, such as evidence of what they stated when they deducted the partial amount?

06:43:54 UTC Aaron

Yes, no actions would be needed for you. Once you issue a partial refund then all you would need to do is to wait for the case to close.

06:44:32 UTC gurlcat

And the notice that the case closed, does it go to the seller via eBay messages (email)?

06:45:00 UTC Aaron

Yes, that is correct Audrey. You will be notified via email.

06:46:05 UTC gurlcat

Aaron, you are an angel for handling this level of scrutiny, thank you so much. I will probably think of one or more additional questions at 3 A.M. or so. May I have your personal phone number?

06:46:13 UTC gurlcat

I'm kidding. 😉

06:47:19 UTC Aaron

Awe that's so sweet Audrey. You're always welcome and if you would have more questions, I would hope that I would be the one who you get in contact with. I enjoyed your queries and this is actually one of my awaited moment.

[lakefor94]

I tried to make it thru the whole shebang... lol

I did not see where Aaron mentioned that if you use the partial refund, the seller FVF's are not prorated/refunded.

I was also under the impression from hashing this out a few times here on the boards that qualifiers for the 50% refund were:

TRS that accepts returns.

Any seller above standard that has free returns.

At the time, it was backed up with policies or "our" take on what the policies stated.

I ain't digging thru the policies this evening...

[pjcdn2005]

Thanks for posting that.  
The 10 day hold is mentioned on the seller protection page but  he had a good  explanation as to why it’s held.

If we're asked to step in after you've issued the refund, it won't be counted as a case closed without seller resolution. We'll keep the return open for up to 10 days while we work with the buyer to resolve their concerns, and you won't need to do anything else.

[pjcdn2005]

You’re right.  Trs sellers are available for this protection if they have free returns or at least 30 day returns

Above average sellers with free returns also qualify.

[lakefor94]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:

You’re right.  Trs sellers are available for this protection if they have free returns or at least 30 day returns

Above average sellers with free returns also qualify.

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Same as what members discerned. 

I always did question the "above average seller with Free returns". One would think an above average seller would also have to have some sort of strong track record to go along with the free returns. 

Think about all the yahoos that come thru the boards here. Can you imagine if they all had 50% refund privledge? 

[carlmarxx]

When this policy came  out  I didn't like it  since  it still  rewards  buyer  on get  some back  after  damaging  or destroying  the good's  beyond  worth reselling . This policy  is joke  on dealing  with  collectable's   ,video  games  and  computer software   goods  .   Also  free shipping  return's  as  requirement  for this protection    made no since  and unfair . All sellers should have the same protections .  

[fern*wood]

I stopped reading when Aaron gave you incorrect information about which sellers qualify for this protection.  My distrust of phone reps remains strong. 

[gurlcat]

LOL what's funny is that he kinda kissed my a__ about being a "VIP" while at the same time telling me I didn't see what I saw -the information about the deduction on the Help page, which IS accessible to everyone to read at least, and it DOESN'T specify that it's only for TRS.  -Like, tell me I'm special but also call me a liar, ha.  

[gurlcat]

My biggest takeway is this: if you do the deduction, you don't get access to that money right away like you would if you had just issued a typical (voluntary) partial refund, like for combined shipping or because the item was delivered slightly damaged but you would both rather settle for a partial refund than a whole return/refund.   And don't hear "ten days" and think "ten days" because it's actually BUSINESS days, weekends and holidays not counted.  In this case, it will be a total of 17 days.  

[gurlcat]

DOH!  I can't believe I forgot to ask him ....and I just now realized that I forgot .... what happens if the buyer leaves a negative feedback because they're angry about getting less than 100% refund?  

[sapphire_studio]

Gurl if someone did not send me back everything they were supposed to I would be doing a 50% refund. You are going to have to re photograph that whole lot and your time is worth money and they are basically trying to scam you by not returning it all. Plus it's easy for them to get the other 50% back by just calling eBay and eBay will foot the bill.

On top of that, EBay's rules seem to suggest you don't get any of the final value face back if you utilize this refund for damages feature. Here is a link showing what I'm talking about. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/fee-credits?id=4128

 

[ladyindecadence]

One other thing that ebay doesn't mention is that when you issue a partial refund ebay does not refund any of the final value fees or add fees on the transaction. So if you issued a refund of 7% ebay still kept your 13.3% final value fee on the transaction. This makes the loss larger then if you had just did a full refund. I learned this after using a top rated deduction on a faulty return once.

[gurlcat]

Excellent points.  The fee credit thing is something I had no idea about and I guess I'll see if I get any back when this return is fully closed on the 27th (I'll try to remember to report back here). 

And yes you're right about having to re-photograph, plus like I said the pieces were not equal in value and she kept 4 of the more-valuable ones, although it would be almost impossible to state their precise value, and oh by the way I forgot to mention this sale was an auction, so the bidders essentially determined the lot's "worth."  

In any future case I would definitely deduct more than the mathematical minimum like I did in this case.  I just decided to play it safe because it was my first go at using it. 

Also another thing I didn't mention was the "reason" the buyer did a return in the first place -she claimed I packed poorly so there were pieces with damages, and she photographed them, but they were already-present signs of old age, I mean suuuuuch absurdly minuscule things that all other buyers accept as what you get with decades-old costume jewelry.  She must have literally spun each and every bead around on every string to find the tiny chip or dirt on this or that bead, LOL.  BUT she also claimed that the 4 pieces were already missing, and that was part of her return reason.  So I asked if she could photograph the box because ... I mean .... did 4 pieces just FALL out or what?  She said the box was fine, but I must not have packed those pieces.  I explained how that wasn't possible.  So then she said she did the unboxing on some livestream so she had witnesses.  I asked if that was still available to view, and she said yes but then she never replied again, to tell me where/how I could view it.  

So basically what I had was a buyer who I felt could make this deduction thing a real headache, and that's part of why I went so minimal.  For all I know, she's still working on some kind of revenge, lol.  

[fern*wood]

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@gurlcat wrote:

DOH!  I can't believe I forgot to ask him ....and I just now realized that I forgot .... what happens if the buyer leaves a negative feedback because they're angry about getting less than 100% refund?  

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I wouldn't trust his answer anyway, but from experience I can say it is supposed to be removed automatically---mine was.  

[gurlcat]

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@fern*wood wrote:

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@gurlcat wrote:

DOH!  I can't believe I forgot to ask him ....and I just now realized that I forgot .... what happens if the buyer leaves a negative feedback because they're angry about getting less than 100% refund?  

---

I wouldn't trust his answer anyway, but from experience I can say it is supposed to be removed automatically---mine was.  

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By 'automatically' do you mean software?  Whenever I hear about automatic feedback removal I can't imagine how it works.  Like how long after posting does it disappear?  If it's automatic it seems like it would be instantaneous.  And if instantaneous, why not just make 'negative' an unavailable option, like it is for 7 days after purchasing from a TRS?