INR Question fro today's Weekly Chat on Returns (Dec 6)

[mr_lincoln]

@mr_lincoln wrote:

INR Question

I’ve read a number of threads where a Buyer processes an INR while the package is still in transit as Tracking shows and can be proven by the Seller.  An INR should not be allowed if the package is still in transit.  Buyers are getting awarded the claim and Refund then the package shows up late (through NO fault of the Seller, just a slow shipment by carrier) so they wind up getting the item FREE … Sellers have absolutely no control over what happens to a package once it is put in the hands of any carrier so why should they be penalized for that?

What is in place to protect the Seller from losing both money and item in this scenario?

@mr_lincoln Thanks for this feedback. Typically a buyer should not be given both the item and a refund -- we do indeed take a look at tracking details, estimated delivery date, and the carrier and service selected. If it's still in transit, we understand that the package should have an adequate amount of time to arrive. There is still always a risk of packages taking longer than the estimated delivery dates -- especially during busy times like the holidays! -- so we'd advise using tracked methods and really you should be covered. I'd also advise using more 'reliable' shipping services (e.g. economy may not be the best during this time of year) if you're worried about the packages taking too long. 

@lauren*us  Sorry I could not get back to the Chat today to reply ... I appreciate your reply but it doesn't answer the question.  The issue is not how an item is shipped other than it has tracking as stated ... it could be a 1 day delivery or 1 month, it does not matter.  The issue is the carrier fails to deliver on time so the Buyer can open an INR and get their money back ... then if the item gets delivered (and again, these are real live threads where this has happened) the Buyer keeps the item, does NOT pay for it since they have already been refunded ... so back to the original question ... What is in place to protect the Seller from losing both money and item in this scenario?

[nawlinsron2]

@brian

YOUR words..."while I wouldn't be able to speak to specifics here on the boards"

There IS or is NOT some code that allows an INR to be opened within 2-3 days of purchase.

Does it or does it not exist?

In the normal world, that's a yes/no response.

[chrysylys]

---

brian@ebay wrote:

while I wouldn't be able to speak to specifics here on the boards

There are times where a case is opened earlier, but this is not something I would be able to elaborate on publicly, especially regarding another members account.

---

Well, of course not in detail, but you could give us a general synopsis.

[brian@ebay]

---

@mr_lincoln wrote:

brian@ebay  My sincere thanks for the reply ... this is not hypothetical it is procedural and goes back to the original question but to a specific situation where Buyer gets the Item and a Refund here it is.

1. Seller ships with 1 day handling with tracking on a 2 - 9 day Parcel Select delivery. (10 days max)

2. Package does NOT arrive by the latest Delivery date (day 10)

3. Buyer opens an INR claim ONE day past Delivery date  (day 11)

4. Seller checks tracking and the package is still in the system but has not been delivered yet.

5. 3 Days later (day 14) claim is escalated and eBay sees that no tracking updates were made in the past 7 days (day 7) and approves Refund - Buyer gets their money back

6.  Day 15, tracking updates and day 16 package is delivered.   Now Buyer has their money back AND the item.

I think I got the day numbering about right but I think you can see there is a gap whereby the Buyer can get their $$ back but the package can still be delivered after that.  This is not hypothetical, this is and always was a procedural question but based on factual accounts of INRs being processed and packages eventually getting delivered.   So this is where my question comes in ... what is in place so the Seller gets paid for the item that was delivered but has already been refunded?

---

Hi @mr_lincoln, we base our decision on the information we have at the time a case is reviewed. In the scenario you've presented a seller would not be protected, meaning they would not be reimbursed, since the estimated delivery date has already passed and a significant amount of time has passed without any updates to tracking.

If tracking hasn't shown an update for several days, a good practice for sellers is to contact the shipping carrier to see if they can update the tracking or locate the package. If we see any updates, we can place the case on hold for at least 5 days. 

[sharingtheland]

If tracking hasn't shown an update for several days, a good practice for sellers is to contact the shipping carrier to see if they can update the tracking or locate the package. If we see any updates, we can place the case on hold for at least 5 days. 

Does this happen automatically, i.e., it's programmed to put a case on hold for "at least" 5 days" in this situation?

Or does the seller have to call CS and get, oh, I don't know, a different answer(s)?

[mr_lincoln]

My sincere thanks brian@ebay for the reply:

"... we base our decision on the information we have at the time a case is reviewed. In the scenario you've presented a seller would not be protected, meaning they would not be reimbursed, since the estimated delivery date has already passed and a significant amount of time has passed without any updates to tracking.

If tracking hasn't shown an update for several days, a good practice for sellers is to contact the shipping carrier to see if they can update the tracking or locate the package. If we see any updates, we can place the case on hold for at least 5 days."

 ________________________________________________________________

Okay, while it is certainly not the answer I was hoping for it does answer the question.  Perhaps this would be a good item for the Spring Seller Update Review Team (SSURT) to look at in an effort to come up with a workable solution for the future.

Regards,

Mr. L

[gracieallen01]

---

brian@ebay wrote:

---

@gracieallen01 wrote:

brian@ebay

For clarification, could you please advise whether you are using the 'we' in a 'Royal' context?

Aren't you and Trinton, and a few others, in 'communications' with Alan?  When you say 'we', are you referring to ebay?  I notice when there is a problem, all of you say that you will refer the problem to the 'team' in charge of the particular area.  And, aren't these INR cases - and returns, in general - handled by CS and 'bots?

Clarification would definitely be helpful.

---

Hi @gracieallen01, happy to clarify! "We" refers to eBay.

---

brian@ebay

Thank you. 

Oh, and the part of the question you possibly overlooked, or got distracted from, in your answer - "And, aren't these INR cases - and returns, in general - handled by CS and 'bots?"?

[ersatz_sobriquet]

---

@chrysylys wrote:

---

brian@ebay wrote:

while I wouldn't be able to speak to specifics here on the boards

There are times where a case is opened earlier, but this is not something I would be able to elaborate on publicly, especially regarding another members account.

---

Well, of course not in detail, but you could give us a general synopsis.

---

A buyer called in and complained, threw a fit, and demanded a case. 

[mr_lincoln]

Okay gang ... here's a thread I just read about this situation where Buyer opened a claim but the item got delivered and the Buyer wants the Seller to cancel the claim.  Should be as easy as the Seller uploads the tracking info in the Resolution Center claim and the case would close in the Sellers favor correct?

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/My-buyer-opened-request-but-now-he-receive-teh-item-and-wants-...

[ersatz_sobriquet]

I wonder if that is going to take a long and tedious phone call, probably with a poorly trained CS rep that won't know how to close the case while the seller is still on the phone. Even then it's hit or miss...

[missjen831]

---

@mr_lincoln wrote:

Okay gang ... here's a thread I just read about this situation where Buyer opened a claim but the item got delivered and the Buyer wants the Seller to cancel the claim.  Should be as easy as the Seller uploads the tracking info in the Resolution Center claim and the case would close in the Sellers favor correct?

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/My-buyer-opened-request-but-now-he-receive-teh-item-and-wants-...

---

The seller should call customer service to get it closed, if the bots don't close it when he uploads the tracking.

[Anonymous]

---

@nawlinsron2 wrote:
@brian

YOUR words..."while I wouldn't be able to speak to specifics here on the boards"

There IS or is NOT some code that allows an INR to be opened within 2-3 days of purchase.

Does it or does it not exist?

In the normal world, that's a yes/no response.

---

Hi @nawlinsron2, I just wanted to touch on the topic of yes or no questions for a moment. Quite often topics are not as black and white as one may hope for them to be. While a simple yes or no is available for some subjects, most of the time there are a variety of factors to consider when providing an answer. When giving a yes or a no answer may lead to confusion or misunderstanding, we will istead seek to give context to our stance on a topic and elaborate on policy. Exceptions and extenuating circumstances could always alter a decision that eBay makes.

As for the specific question you are posing, this could be interpreted in a number of ways. If you are asking if it is within policy to open a item not received request 2-3 days after purchase, this will depend on the details of the transaction. The status of the accounts involved and the shipping expectations could make this either a yes or a no. If you are asking if a customer can open an item not received case within a short time of purchasing the item, I can only say that this is typically not possible, but there may be times where this option is available. Customer Service certainly can override the standard timeframes for an eBay Money Back Guarantee claim when it is deemed necessary. 

I hope these added details help to clarify where we stand on this topic. We've reached out to the OP of the other thread mentioned to be more specific with them about what may have happened in their transaction, but are not able to be more detailed here. I assure you, it is our goal to be as detailed as possible and we do not intentionally withhold relevant information here on the boards that is available to be shared.

[gracieallen01]

---

@nawlinsron2 wrote:
@brian

YOUR words..."while I wouldn't be able to speak to specifics here on the boards"

There IS or is NOT some code that allows an INR to be opened within 2-3 days of purchase.

Does it or does it not exist?

In the normal world, that's a yes/no response.

---

Awww, come on now.  You didn't REALLY expect a yes or no, did you?  Neither of those words are in the ebay vocabulary, not even with a "Yes, if .... " or "No, unless ...." 

There is now way that anyone at ebay would say "Yes, it is coded in there for that, BUT it is only  supposed to happen if ......"

I mean, that would be to easy and understandable!

[Anonymous]

---

@gracieallen01 wrote:

---

brian@ebay wrote:

---

@gracieallen01 wrote:

brian@ebay

For clarification, could you please advise whether you are using the 'we' in a 'Royal' context?

Aren't you and Trinton, and a few others, in 'communications' with Alan?  When you say 'we', are you referring to ebay?  I notice when there is a problem, all of you say that you will refer the problem to the 'team' in charge of the particular area.  And, aren't these INR cases - and returns, in general - handled by CS and 'bots?

Clarification would definitely be helpful.

---

Hi @gracieallen01, happy to clarify! "We" refers to eBay.

---

brian@ebay

Thank you. 

Oh, and the part of the question you possibly overlooked, or got distracted from, in your answer - "And, aren't these INR cases - and returns, in general - handled by CS and 'bots?"?

---

Hi @gracieallen01, happy to clarify; when we reference "we" or "eBay" in this situation, this would include all employees or tools involved in our eBay Money Back Guarantee case process. Our agents reference policy information when reviewing case details and for the few situations that are eligible for an automated decision, our programs are developed by employees of eBay to align with written policy. In the instances where an agent or the automated system makes a mistake, we can review to make this right and improve our training and programming.

Not all item not received requests or return requests are automated, as this is only applicable in a small portion of scenarios. One example would be an item not received request where no tracking has been provided and no response has been recorded from the seller to the request. Upon escalation from the buyer, this would likely be automatically closed for the buyer as the seller has not given us reason to believe the item is in transit, delivered or that they have otherwise been working on a resolution. Additionally, protections are put in place to minimize errors - automation would typically not occur if the seller escalated, for example. There are numerous other situations that would qualify for automatic decisions, and countless filters in place to instead route the case decision to one of our agents. 

@I hope this clears up any confusion! If you ever have a specific issue to discuss, don't hesitate to contact Customer Service to have it reviewed and @mention us if you are not receiving the help that you need so we can review the conversation for appropriate action!

[nawlinsron2]

Ergo, in the absence of ANY extenuating circumstances, there is/is not code that allows an INR to be filed BEFORE the expected delivery date?

[mr_lincoln]

@nawlinsron2

---

@nawlinsron2 wrote:
Ergo, in the absence of ANY extenuating circumstances, there is/is not code that allows an INR to be filed BEFORE the expected delivery date?

---

I am thinking that other thread mentioned may be one of the scenarios where the Buyer can open the INR prior to delivery ... as it turns out, the OP of the thread failed to mention at first that they did not use tracking.  That fact does NOT change the delivery date nor does it change the Sellers handling time.  So eBay's system only sees the purchase then nothing, no tracking, no shipping method, no messages from Seller that they shipped, etc.   So I suspect at that point its carte blanche on claims.