I beg you Ebay, please FIX Seller Protection and have our backs once in awhile!

[oldmanfancystore]

Hello Fellow Ebay's,

This seemed like a nice place to get something off my chest as I ponder next moves. 

Seller Protection: What Is That? Due Process? Doesn't seem to happen. 

I sell higher end and vintage menswear, been an Ebay member since 2002 and tend to do alright (Although past few years a huge decline for me.) I had a buyer purchase a gorgeous Junya Watanabe/Vanson leather motorcycle jacket for close to $600. He told me there was a small tear on the back and wanted to return the jacket. Didn't really think much of it, probably a small tear I didn't see, it happens. When I got the jacket back there was a HUGE 8" tear the size of an apple. NO WAY I MISS THAT. 

I contacted buyer and told him that there's no way I sent it like that and emailed photos from the listing showing the jacket was perfect. He then replied that it didn't fit anyway so would I be willing to deduct $100 from the refund price for the cost of HIS MISTAKE. Obviously I said no. 

I ended up reporting him to Ebay (Never heard back) and then he opened the dreaded case. Here's the timeline:

655am: Case opened by buyer

714am: Refund sent to buyer with no due process and automated response. 

715am: Case closed by Ebay

He was refunded before the case was even closed! I then appealed the decision b/c of CoVID there are no live agents to speak too. 

945am: Appealed decision

947am: Received email stating they reviewed all the evidence (Which Ebay never asked for yet) and decided to stick with initial outcome. 

Look Ebay, this is ridiculous and needs to be corrected. This happens to all of us longtime sellers and it feels like you're punching us in the gut when we have no due process (Which is illegal when holding money and property btw.) 

So I'm gonna keep fighting it, what else am I gonna do. I lost my job at a NYC hotel and can't buy any new inventory so money is tight. Very tight. I'll most likely try and get a police report written up and do whatever I can to rectify this injustice. But more than anything, this is about self respect and pride. There are some cases that need a more focused attention when obvious rules were broken...long time sellers AT LEAST deserve this. All we're asking for is an actual review of the evidence. Or stagger your emails so it's not so obvious that NO ONE actually took the time to review the case. 

Without a proper response from Ebay I'm afraid 18 years of business will be over and I'll migrate over to Grailed.com. Please rectify. 

Everyone stay safe and keep your head up 

[slati_2013]

Unfortunately, in cases like this, it is best to simply cut your loses. I know you never sent the jacket like that, but how to prove it? As painful as it would have been, you should have accepted the $100 he offered for the damage. Asking eBay to step in almost always means a win for the buyer unless you have an open-and-shut case. 

[oldmanfancystore]

Besides what we always have...a photo of the listing, I figured the email he sent basically copping to the tear and offering that $100 would be enough to shift burden of proof. I'm hoping Ebay still fixes this. 

[oldmanfancystore]

Received an email from Ebay today explaining why Sellers will no longer have any say in Damaged returns:

Hello Christian,

This is Rhea Amor and I am one of eBay's Supervisor. I apologize for any inconvenience that this case may have caused.

I know it is frustrating to receive an item in a different condition. I saw the pictures that you sent and same with the one's on the your listing. I went over your messages as well and saw the offer for $100 to have the item fixed. Unfortunately, we no longer have any coverage for Faulty Return. This is also the reason why your appeal was denied. Your option for this type of scenario is to issue a Partial refund once you received an item not in the same condition as you sent it. You will be able to do this once you are a Top Seller and offer Free Returns.

I also noticed that you already reported the buyer and that's the best action to take for this. Our Buyer Risk Management Team will review the buyer’s account and take action if there is a history or pattern of abuse.

We also encourage you to continue offering free returns to achieve Top Rated Seller status and offer a 30-day or more return policy (free or buyer paid) in order to become eligible to use the Partial Refund Tool. If you qualify for the Partial Refund Tool in the future and receive back an item damaged or missing parts, you can deduct up to 50% from a buyer’s refund to compensate for the loss in value. We protect sellers that use this feature by automatically removing negative feedback for the transaction.

Since Appeal is already denied I no longer have an option to drop any decision for this case. Our billing department won't be able to process refunds due to Faulty Returns.

My next option would be to credit the fees related to these transaction and to deduct $150 off your eBay invoice. How does that sound? I see that currently you have $XXX.XX balance in your ebay account. We can deduct it front here instead. Please let me know if you want to proceed.

Appreciate your patience.

Thanks!
Regards,
Rhea

*****
My fault for not keeping up on every change but this scenario hasn't happened to me. It astounds me that this is something Ebay expects from its SELLERS and allows to flourish in the criminal Buyer community. I deal in clothes....Any buyer can wear my items (Which tend to be pricier) for 30 days and then return it and get a full refund. A kick to the Nutz for sure but then you find out you pay their RETURN shipping AND the fees associated!! I'm sorry, I don't get that AT ALL.

I got stung and it hurt Ebay. Unfortunately our time together has ended b/c this is a business practice I want nothing to do with. It's not smart, legal or moral. Thanks for 18 years.

*See you menswear sellers on Grailed ;). Be good.

~OldManFancy

[oldmanfancystore]

BTW I'll be having a FIRE SALE w/ most of the remaining inventory on Ebay before migrating to Grailed (Except higher priced items of course!) Can't be stung again :(.

[pinksakura2000]

eBay has eBay Buyer Protection which allows eBay to automatically refund the buyer by charging your credit card or bank account. I am sorry for your loss but at least you got the jacket (although damaged). In my case, I got nothing back and the buyer kept my money and my product for free.

In addition, you may consider seeking help from the following agencies free of charge. Even though you are a seller on eBay, you are also eBay's customer/consumer because you pay eBay fees.

Better Business Bureau
https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

California Department of Consumer Affairs
1625 North Market Blvd., Suite N 112
Sacramento, CA 95834
(800) 952-5210

Contractors State License Board
PO Box 26000
Sacramento, CA
(800) 321-CSLB (2752)

Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)
www.ic3.gov

ArbiClaims Dispute Resolution
http://www.arbiclaims.com/bbb

[oldmanfancystore]

Thank you PinkSakura. I feel violated and it's hard to accept this scenario is allowed. Sometimes I wish I had no conscious, I'd have a new closet of stuff :). For free. Thanks Ebay.

[bar-29368]

Just so you're aware. Not only do they have 30 days to decide to open a return request, they now have another 30 days before they have to mail it.

[oldmanfancystore]

Geezus. I guess you don't think about this insane policy until it happens to you. Then you feel like the biggest sucker online. I could MAYBE see for items under $50 but when you're talking bigger ticket items over, say, $100, there HAS to be DUE PROCESS b/c we small sellers can not absorb these costs...especially NOW in this environment.

[pinksakura2000]

Hahaha yes, no one can have a worse scenario than me, loosing the product, international shipping, eBay fees, Paypal fees. But of course, at this point it is not about partial credit/refund anymore. It is about doing the right things. How a buyer is allowed to keep my product and obtain a full refund from eBay by charging my credit card is still beyond my understanding. Therefore I took all my listings off immediately. I won't open myself further up to these potential scenarios again and be upset with the unethical/wrongful/unjust behaviors.

[oldmanfancystore]

Ahem Sakura. I'm in the process of migrating off Ebay once this happened. It was the last straw as they say. It's too bad b/c Ebay has been my spot for almost two decades. Sorry it had to end like this but this policy is BAT SH!T CRAZY.

[aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines]

pinksakura2000 -If they charged it to your credit card, I would call the credit card company and place the charge in dispute.   The credit card company, unlike ebay, will give a fair look at the situation since they do not have any money on the line like ebay does.   Ebay will always find in favor of the buyer or whatever judgement makes them the most money. 

[oldmanfancystore]

Hmmm. That could work for you Sakura. I tried to work this through PayPal (Who's been helpful w/ me since I have a business acct) but on this issue they say Ebay has priority. If the buyer would have escalated this w/ PayPal, they said they would've reversed this decision given what happened. But since it was w/ Ebay they weren't able to do anything.

[oldmanfancystore]

Another half ass explanation from Ebay from their TWITTER account:

Thank you so much for verifying. I have taken a look at the return and I'm so sorry to see how this transaction has gone. I can see why you'd be upset. it looks like your appeal has already been denied.I know that these issues feel like a setback. These kinds of problems are rare, but every online seller will encounter them at some point or another, so I hope you're not too discouraged by the situation. In these situations, our decision will be that the seller accepts the return, issues the refund, and pursues the issue outside of eBay if they wish. I am very sorry for the inconvenience. ~Diane

I think she's telling me to take justice into my own hands. Unbelievable Ebay, what happened to you? Really. 

Thank you for contacting eBay today, please take a few moments to rate your experience What is your overall satisfaction with our Social Team?

[oldmanfancystore]

{{Buyers are covered by the eBay money back guarantee. I have reviewed all the messages and the buyer did not admit to ripping the jacket but stated he did not know how the tear occurred. I am very sorry. ~Diane}}