cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provided

Hello,

 

On 12/23 I received a VeRO infraction e-mail from eBay for a "Parallel Import Policy" violation I was accused of. 

 

Original listing (pulled by eBay):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184607751377?ViewItem=&item=184607751377&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:1123

 

While the e-mail states the listing that was accused of being in violation of the policy, it doesn't provide a way to contact the "rights owner" to appeal.

 

I've been selling long enough and had a handful of these over the years (all that appear to be misapplied or bogus) and I'm pretty confident that regardless of result they stay attached to your account.

 

I would like to at least try and appeal but nowhere in the e-mail was an option to do so provided or a way to contact the entity who filed the complaint. Can anyone help?

 

 

Here is the e-mail I received:

 

Hello bangordiscount,

 

Your listing didn't follow our VeRO Parallel Import Policy. Importing certain products from other countries without the rights owner’s permission may violate their intellectual property rights

 

What activity didn't follow the policy
More specific details are provided below.

 

What you need to do next
Please ensure your current and future listings follow this policy.

 

What is the policy
- Your listing was reported by for offering shipping into the EU (European Union) or EEA (European Economic Area) without their permission. eBay’s Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program offers intellectual property rights owner(s) a way to report listings that they believe infringe on their rights
- Importing certain products from other countries into the EU or EEA without the rights owner’s permission may violate their intellectual property rights. You must exclude shipping to the EU and EEA, and let buyers know they will not ship to these areas
- If you believe a mistake has been made, you will need to contact the rights owner directly. If the right’s owner approves you appeal, please have them contact us directly to reinstate your listing(s)

 

How this affects your account
Because you may not have been aware of this policy, we're sending this notice to educate you about it and ask that you follow this policy in the future.

- Listings that didn't follow this policy have been ended and placed in your unsold items.
- We have credited all associated fees except for payments processing fees and the final value fee for your listing(s).

Listings that don't follow this policy in the future will be ended.

 

Why we have this policy
This policy helps you to ensure that eBay users trust our marketplace, and comply with the law.

More information and help
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/selling-policies/intellectual-property-vero-prog...

Listings that don't follow policy
184607751377 - New! Logitech Drive Force Wireless Force Feedback Racing Wheel (PlayStation 3)


We appreciate your understanding.
Thanks,
eBay

Message 1 of 13
latest reply
1 BEST ANSWER

Accepted Solutions

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide


@suzysemporium wrote:

Another reason I don't usually sell electronics, video games, and dvd's. They seem to be region specific. Other countries have different type of plugs than the US has. There are adapters out there, but I know of a seller getting a neg for not sending an adapter with the item even though an adapter was never mentioned in the listing.

 

Your US Logitech wheel may not be compatible with systems sold in other countries. I wouldn't put it past the company to do that. It may be compatible, but for what ever reason the company doesn't want it sold in another country.

 

Since Logitech made the wheel, try searching for a contact phone number for that company. I think that would be a good place to start.


A good place to start would be for eBay to include the contact information in their VeRO email... Otherwise how do they expect me to reach the entity that filed the complaint?

 

Second, a lot of posters on those threads get caught up on what the manufacturers or "rights holders" want when in a lot of applications that doesn't matter. 1st sale doctrine covers this in both the U.S. and EU. 

 

Unless it is legally forbidden by a specific country to be sold there, I can sell it, as in my property, there.

View Best Answer in original post

Message 5 of 13
latest reply
12 REPLIES 12

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

Things have gotten so complicated I will just say I am so glad I stopped selling to international locations seven years ago.

Message 2 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide


@jayjaspersgarage wrote:

Things have gotten so complicated I will just say I am so glad I stopped selling to international locations seven years ago.


 

Yes, they are, but they don't need to be. eBay needs to pull in the reigns a little on these "entities" that file bogus "VeRO" complaints.

 

This happened to my account several years ago when the PlayStation 4 (PS4) consoles were first released and someone "representing Sony" had my account flagged for selling consoles to the U.S.

 

I got it straightened out upon appeal but it's a lot of work for very little reward

Message 3 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

Another reason I don't usually sell electronics, video games, and dvd's. They seem to be region specific. Other countries have different type of plugs than the US has. There are adapters out there, but I know of a seller getting a neg for not sending an adapter with the item even though an adapter was never mentioned in the listing.

 

Your US Logitech wheel may not be compatible with systems sold in other countries. I wouldn't put it past the company to do that. It may be compatible, but for what ever reason the company doesn't want it sold in another country.

 

Since Logitech made the wheel, try searching for a contact phone number for that company. I think that would be a good place to start.

Message 4 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide


@suzysemporium wrote:

Another reason I don't usually sell electronics, video games, and dvd's. They seem to be region specific. Other countries have different type of plugs than the US has. There are adapters out there, but I know of a seller getting a neg for not sending an adapter with the item even though an adapter was never mentioned in the listing.

 

Your US Logitech wheel may not be compatible with systems sold in other countries. I wouldn't put it past the company to do that. It may be compatible, but for what ever reason the company doesn't want it sold in another country.

 

Since Logitech made the wheel, try searching for a contact phone number for that company. I think that would be a good place to start.


A good place to start would be for eBay to include the contact information in their VeRO email... Otherwise how do they expect me to reach the entity that filed the complaint?

 

Second, a lot of posters on those threads get caught up on what the manufacturers or "rights holders" want when in a lot of applications that doesn't matter. 1st sale doctrine covers this in both the U.S. and EU. 

 

Unless it is legally forbidden by a specific country to be sold there, I can sell it, as in my property, there.

Message 5 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

Unless it is legally forbidden by a specific country to be sold there, I can sell it, as in my property, there.

 

How's that working for you?

 

 

*******************************
This is my posting user ID.
I have different user IDs for selling, buying and posting.
NOTE: Responders are eBay users like you that volunteer to help other users. We are not compensated by eBay.
Message 6 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide


@*_forum_id_* wrote:

Unless it is legally forbidden by a specific country to be sold there, I can sell it, as in my property, there.

 

How's that working for you?

 

 


Thanks for the contribution! Better hurry though, only a few hours left to get your 2020 post count up! Lol @20,000+

 

Rah rah... Give me an "e".. give me a "B" 🤡

Message 7 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

Your listing was reported by for offering shipping into the EU (European Union) or EEA (European Economic Area) without their permission. eBay’s Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program offers intellectual property rights owner(s) a way to report listings that they believe infringe on their rights
- Importing certain products from other countries into the EU or EEA without the rights owner’s permission may violate their intellectual property rights. You must exclude shipping to the EU and EEA, and let buyers know they will not ship to these areas

 

 

 

Stop selling to the EU and EEU

********************************************************************
I have been imported from Australia and this is my posting ID
Message 8 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide


@downunder-61 wrote:

Your listing was reported by for offering shipping into the EU (European Union) or EEA (European Economic Area) without their permission. eBay’s Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program offers intellectual property rights owner(s) a way to report listings that they believe infringe on their rights
- Importing certain products from other countries into the EU or EEA without the rights owner’s permission may violate their intellectual property rights. You must exclude shipping to the EU and EEA, and let buyers know they will not ship to these areas

 

 

 

Stop selling to the EU and EEU


Lol.  Okay.

 

You're basically suggesting that sellers of ANY item need to contact the manufacturer or "rights holder" for permission to sell it outside the U.S., is that correct?


Does anyone here actually know what they're talking about? And better yet, can anyone explain why eBay asks you to contact the rights holder directly but does NOT include contact information for them in the VeRO message?

I'm also looking for responses from anyone that understands the parallel import policy and any applicable laws rather than the weak attempt of "stop selling to the EU.. derp derp"

 

 

Message 9 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

I was just reading the info and it only seems to be EU and EEA that is the problem, parallel importing has always given me a headache to be honest, have had it explained to me so many times and I still find it sounds good but has a lot of hoops to jump through, at least here in AUs.

 

Apologies for the derp derp'' - rest assured, I now consider myself ''told''

 

Very glad you solved your own problem

********************************************************************
I have been imported from Australia and this is my posting ID
Message 10 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

Bet you 100% Corsearch was the cyber cop who reported the listing. I received the exact same emails. Had to contact eBay to get reporter info to contact. Sony is a client of Corsearch. Other clients are: HP Ink, HP, Briggs & Stratton, The North Face, Warner Brothers, FlexSeal, Wella, Clairol, 

 

When you send email to the VERO provided address, you quickly get a reply email redirecting you to the Corsearch website to file you appeal notice. If you file out this webpage, do not give them any identification information and leave all the fields blank (name, address, phone, etc). Only report your email address (I would setup a new and separate gmail account), brand reported, item description, eBay seller name and this is it. You don’t want them to have your personal info to contact you later or send you bullying mail such as baseless cease and desist letters.

 

 I’m getting ready to go after them with a lawsuit and enjoin Wella and Clairol hair color products in the US, Germany and Switzerland. Corsearch is a cyber cop who acts as a bounty hunter. They ignore: “fair use”, Right of First Sale Doctrine, international exhaustion, DMCA and EU parallel imports rules and laws. Their objective is to get rid of sellers who are selling cheaper products outside the EU or which didn’t originate within the EU or Europe.

 

Cyber cops have a financial incentive to remove as many listings as they can. They do not vet the listings and do not care if they are legit. Cyber cops get paid by the bounty, “listing removed”, or they meet their quotas. They are usually paid a fee per bounty or they get a % of the amount billed or collected. Corsearch has a financial incentive to have as many listings removed as possible because listings removed means Corsearch can pad their billings to their clients.

 

Google Corsearch job listings. Read the job descriptions. You will quickly see the job descriptions push: sales, revenue, targets, removing “infringing” listings on eCommerce sites, upselling to clients, keeping clients, going over billings with clients and the best one “no trademark experience is required. We will train you”. The last sentence clearly shows you the cheap sweatshop labor they are using as cyber cops to remove listings and how they have no knowledge of trademark law. 

You can read the employee reviews and see all the negative reviews regarding low pay, long hours, unrealistic expectations and incompetent management. Corsearch breeds a culture of “Doers”, “yes” people and robots to do as they are told and don’t question Mgmt. 

 

Did Corsearch or Logitech perform a test buy?

Did they prove your product did not originate from within the EU and the first sale did not occur within the EU?

Have they provided you with the respective USPTO trademark and the corresponding EUIPO or state or national level trademark(s) you are infringing?

Have you sold and shipped any Logitech item, which they allege you are infringing,  into any of the 26 EU nations? If not, then how the hell can you be parallel importing and infringing on a trademark?

 

My best advice to you would be to read the final judgement from the CJEU Court in July 2011 regarding L’Oréal v. eBay. Mainly paragraphs: 55, 62, 63, 64, 65 and 67. 
https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf;jsessionid=8B9B72321ADDA6B2C63511651E6C1A03?text...

 

Statements made in this post are my own opinions formed after diligent research and first hand experience. The statements made in this post constitute “free speech” and are protected by the First Amendment. I am not an Attorney and nothing in my post constitutes legal advice.

Message 11 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

@br.wibkw.o8mksdxrh 

 

Thank you, this was very helpful and informative.

 

Yes, outside of a few instances within high end designer items (Coach comes to mind) it is almost always a 3rd party filing this claims. Coach was sued (successfully) but I haven't seen much in the way of traction when it comes to lawsuits against the watchdogs---but I wish you all the luck.

 

All I want is for more "checks and balances" in which eBay suspends or limits the ability of Vero holders (or those acting on their behalf) to remove listings if they are doing so frivolously. 

Message 12 of 13
latest reply

Re: How to challenge "VeRO" Parallel Import Policy Infraction when no contact info provide

I know probably 99%+ of sellers do not know the following. Sellers need to remember a trademark owner, cyber cop or attorney cannot determine infringement, cannot use eBay listing as prima facia evidence to take action to damage a seller and conclude trademark infringement.

 

Trademark owners, greedy cyber cops and greedy and overreaching bottom feeding trademark attorneys taking VeRO actions against bona fide sellers selling legitimate trademarked items constitutes tortious interference with your eBay seller account. A judicial officer of a US court or a jury in the US are the only people who can determine infringement and issue a court ruling and court order. A judicial officer of an EU National court or any other worldwide court is the only person who can determine and rule on infringement after due process of both parties in a foreign country. CJEU made this ruling 100% clear in the July 2011 judgement regarding the UK case: L’Oréal vs. eBay.

Sellers don’t know only a court can determine and rule on trademark infringement. Sellers honor these trademark bully threats and don’t fight back. If you are selling a legitimate trademarked item and are protected by the “Right of First Sale Doctrine”, standup to these bullies and protect your rights and business. You can tell the bottom feeding attorney, who sends you a baseless “cease and desist” letter, which completely ignores or tries to circumvent the “First Sale Doctrine” to go pound sand and advise the attorney to tell his client to “go eat “sh….” and “f…. off”” (told this to: Square, Jack Dorsey, Insperon, Honeywell and GoPro). I’ve done this several times and never heard from them again.

 

Most cyber cops and trademark attorneys are bottom feeders. They can’t make it anywhere else or in a law firm so they have to resort to fraudulent and unethical tactics to attack and scare people who they perceive as weaker than them and who won’t fight back. Cyber cops make money by putting bounties on the removal of legitimate seller listings and filing false and fraud VeRO notices to eBay. Every listing removed creates a billable the cyber cop can use to pad their billing to their client. Removing listings makes the cyber cop look credible to their client as if they are doing their job and providing value to the client. The fact is the client has opened their checkbook to the cyber cop and the cyber cop robs the client. 

Bottom feeding trademark Attorneys send baseless cease and desist letters to small eBay sellers. The attorneys threatened to sue the seller if they don’t abide by the attorney’s demands. 99.9% of the threats never materialize and most sellers cower down and comply with the unethical attorney’s demands when they shouldn’t. Trademark attorneys get paid big bucks to threaten, scare and intimidate people daily. The attorneys know their baseless and unfounded threats will generally result in a high rate of compliance with the demands. Turn around, stand-up and challenge the bottom feeding trademark attorney, and file a “Suit for Declaratory Judgement”, watch how fast the attorneys become wimps, ignore you, don’t ever file a lawsuit or quickly want to settle. Attorneys are not used to being challenged or call out for their lies and deception. Attorneys become real wimps when they are called out and challenged. An attorney’s biggest asset is their reputation followed by their Bar license. 

Trademark attorneys get paid big bucks to lie and push paper. Attorneys know their trademark cease and desist letters they send are baseless and will not stand up in court. The greed of billable hours, which are gold to an attorney, overpower ethics and law. The attorney has a cease and desist letter template they use. The template will take maybe an hour at the most to draft. A simple “find and replace” function does most of the work for them and than they just have to read the letter and make respective changes. The attorney will paid the billing to the client for 4-8 hours of work as if they created the letter from scratch. 

Last thing to remember: There are a lot of incompetent trademark attorneys and incompetent In-House Trademark Legal Counsel at these companies who issue baseless legal threats to sellers and try to extort licensing fees from sellers. This is the reason they have to prey on weak, vulnerable and inexperienced eBay sellers who they know will not fight back or don’t have the financial resources to hire counsel and fight back. I have learned it is more incompetence than it is attorney “lying” regarding trademark attorneys. Can provide many examples and evidence of incompetent and lying trademark attorneys.


Trademark attorneys do lie and use lying to cover up and hide the truth. Attorneys get by with lying because they are not under oath. In the attorney world, “lying” is called advocating for your client. This is reason many of the greatest liars become bottom feeding trademark attorneys, bottom feeding personal injury attorneys and bottom feeding divorce and family law attorneys. The aforementioned bottom feeding attorneys prey of people’s weaknesses, lack of knowledge, vulnerability, financial weakness, pain, suffering and anxiety.

 

Good attorneys don’t have the time to threaten people and they really don’t care to stoop to this level. They care more about their reputations. They are usually rainmakers of a firm and/or have ethics. The good attorneys are in demand and turn clients away daily. They have more work than they can handle and they have clients waiting in line for their services. The good attorneys charge between $600-$1,200 an hour. These good and respected attorneys are usually partners in firms or work for firms in the following industries: oil, gas, real estate, contract law, utilities, Wall Street and finance, health care, white collar crime and professional liability (primarily industries that require deep thinking, quick thinking, intelligence, protection and limiting liability and strategic thinking and planning). Manipulating and preying on peoples weaknesses and emotions do not require deep thinking, do not assume higher standards of ethics and potential legal liability, and the bottom feeding attorney is not held to a high standard as long as the attorney performs abd produces results for the subpar client and/or advances the unethical or fraudulent agenda of their client.

 

The views expressed above are solely my opinions and are based on my personal experiences dealing with trademark attorneys, In-House Corporate Counsel, divorce attorneys and actual professional real estate and corporate attorneys in the Corporate America realm of employment. My views and opinions are protected “free speech” under the First Amendment. Anybody is welcome to post a rebuttal or different opinion.

Message 13 of 13
latest reply