How do I determine if a sale is eligible for eBay-provided return labels?

[amesrg]

I got scammed by someone who purchased a camera lens and wanted to return it.  I tried to purchase the return label through eBay but was not able to do so.  I called eBay and they said they don't know why the sale was not eligible for an eBay-provided return label.    This was a US buyer in Florida and I had no issues purchasing the initial label through eBay.

So I purchased a return label directly from UPS but the buyer claims it does not work.  Of course, it does: you can enter the tracking number on the UPS website and it says "awaiting shipment".  The issue is that eBay says it's up to him to determine if the label works or not.  If he says the label doesn't work then he keeps the lens and gets a full refund.

Obviously, this is a scam.  Well, it's obvious now...

So, how do I know if a sale is eligible for purchasing a return label through eBay so I can prevent this from happening again?

Furthermore, how do I refuse those kinds of transactions?  I can't find anything that seems remotely close to that option.

Thanks

[wastingtime101]

Thanks for jumping in on this kyle@ebay - what you've stated is the same I've experienced first hand. Too bad the OP has gotten such a confusing mix of information.

By the way - that comment about shipping labels being too blurry or pixelated because the resolution might be too low? That's exactly why I like to recommend pirateship. They provide a link you can send to the buyer, which gives the buyer direct access to the high-res label. No distortion from uploading a JPG to eBay or shrinking/converting, etc. Great option if you're buying your own return shipping label.

If for any reason you lose the claim @amesrg come back and let us know. 

Hopefully you won't need this, but I'm including the link for appealing a case that you can bookmark in case things don't work out:

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-outcome-case-seller?id=4369

[dhbookds]

kyle@ebay  @wastingtime101 

Thanks to both of you for getting this straightened out........

Kyle, I would point out that I @ Devon 3x during this discussion.........I'm sure he was unavailable.......and I should have "picked" another one of you......lesson learned for me......

[sin-n-dex]

---

kyle@ebay wrote:

---

I also agree with your assessment.  Since the transaction was over the $750 threshold, it was not eligible for the automated eBay return label.  

---

That's what I said four pages ago.

C.

[wastingtime101]

I admitted above to not reading most of the discussion before posting - too long by the time I jumped in. 😁

So my apologies to you, C, and any others whose great advice I may have echoed without realizing it.

[toomuchstuffagain35]

---

@wastingtime101 wrote:

---

eBay-generated return labels are USPS, exclusively. Doesn't matter the original outbound carrier.

Not to hijack but are you positive about that?

There are posts on the shipping board from sellers wondering why their returns through ebay are coming back with a Fedex tracking #. One even contacted CSR and was told that Fedex is now "ebay's first choice of returns partner".

---

[wastingtime101]

Were those packages that routed through the authenticity program @toomuchstuffagain35 ?

If not, were they buyers remorse or were SNAD in the mix?

Edit: You can post or PM a link and we can take the discussion over there since this beast of a thread already has enough going on.

[sin-n-dex]

---

@wastingtime101 wrote:

I admitted above to not reading most of the discussion before posting - too long by the time I jumped in. 😁

So my apologies to you, C, and any others whose great advice I may have echoed without realizing it.

---

I'm OK with other people on the thread missing replies... This was directed at the OP who argued with me (to the point that I decided to just ignore them) when I made this suggestion.

I wasn't sure that it was right, just that it made sense... I don't do over $750 transactions, but I have been in the forum for almost 7 years, you kinda learn a thing or too.

C.

[amesrg]

I disagreed because eBay told me otherwise.  So we have one person saying it's correct and a few others, directly involved in my case, saying it's not.  I also posted a screen grab from the Facebook group person directly contradicting what was said here.

So believe whomever you choose.

[amesrg]

"Hey @amesrg that's a fair question after all you've been told!  This is a bit of an oversimplification, but essentially, as long as our agents can view the label and would be able to print it out and send a package on its way, we consider your obligation to be fulfilled at that point.  "

kyle@ebay - if the above quote is true, why did I have to keep submitting labels?  They could see it, it was in the system as required, it was perfectly legible in multiple formats, and you could enter the tracking number on the UPS website and confirm it was legitimate.  I also offered to mail the label to the buyer.  I also offered to have it delivered to whatever UPS store he wanted to use.  I also offered to pick it up from whatever location the buyer wanted.  Any one of those, by itself, should have confirmed that my obligation was fulfilled.

And yet, eBay kept telling me to send more labels.  That seems directly contradictory to your statement.

Can you explain that apparent discrepancy?

Furthermore, can you talk to the people handling my case?

Because, frankly, while communication on a public forum is great, it holds no weight.  Nothing in this thread has changed anything that eBay is *officially* telling me.

[toomuchstuffagain35]

@wastingtime101 

Sorry, looks like it was on the Returns board

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Returns/Return-auto-default-to-Fedex/td-p/33728450/jump-to/first-unrea...

[farmalljr]

---

@amesrg wrote:

Here's what I was able to figure out after researching this for several days:

• If you provide a return label from a source other than eBay, eBay defers to the buyer to determine if it is a valid return label.
• For domestic transactions where the weight and dimensions of the shipment are known, the seller has no way to know at the time of the sale if the sale is eligible for an eBay return label.
• International transactions and items that do not specify weight and/or dimensions are not eligible for an eBay return label.

The consequence of the first two bullets is this: if a seller decides that your return labels are not valid then he is refunded and is allowed to keep the item.  It does not matter how much and/or what kind of proof of validity you provide from the carrier, eBay defers to the buyer.

This information is corroborated by eBay phone support, eBay email support and two separate people on the eBay for Business Facebook group.  There was one person on the Facebook group who said eBay will defer to the carrier but eBay would not do that for me, so obviously he was wrong.

Those are the facts, here's some opinion: eBay was extremely weasel-wordy when I was asking them some very simple questions (including the one that is the title of this thread).  I think they have some legal reason that they cannot force a buyer to accept a non-eBay return label, but I can't think of what it is and they don't want to admit it.  The reason they don't want to admit it is there's a huge opportunity for scammers who buy stuff in a way that prevents the seller from acquiring an eBay return label and then refuse the return labels that the seller provides.  They are refunded and get to keep the items.  I think eBay recognizes this loophole - that's why they're so cagey when pressed about it.

Seller beware.

---

No..... 

Where you are wrong? If you did NOT ship with a USPS label then eBay CAN'T/WON'T offer a return label. Period. eBay will only issue USPS labels for domestic sales (the new international program is a different animal). 

The lens could have shipped USPS. Apparently you chose UPS for whatever reason. Now you are in a pickle. Not saying it's right that the buyer is trying to scam you. Just saying you should have protected yourself and used a USPS priority label. 

It doesn't matter now, if the item would be shippable with USPS, you shipped it with another carrier that eBay does NOT offer return labels with. 

Welcome to the catch 22 of selling. eBay does not care what money YOU lose. You have to protect yourself. No one else is going to look out for you. 

[wastingtime101]

---

kyle@ebay wrote:

---

---

Hey @amesrg that's a fair question after all you've been told!  This is a bit of an oversimplification, but essentially, as long as our agents can view the label and would be able to print it out and send a package on its way, we consider your obligation to be fulfilled at that point.  

So there IS some validity to having to deal with sending a second label in some circumstances (for example, if the first was too blurry or pixelated), but generally speaking you are done once you've provided the return label through the case.  

---

OK, so I finally took the time to read this discussion plus the OP's other thread on the same topic that someone alerted me to. Some of the confusion probably resulted because OP posted info on 2 different threads. Gonna throw some stuff out there.

• Buyer opened not as described return.
• Due to value ($750+) and signature requirements, return label could not be generated through eBay.
• OP purchased a label through UPS and uploaded it to the return request.
• Buyer escalated to a case and said the label was not valid.
• Buyer complained the label was a JPG not a PDF. OP offered to send a PDF if the buyer provided their email address. Buyer ghosted him.
• OP offered several options including sending the label to the buyer's nearest UPS store, having UPS pick up the package from the buyer. Buyer ghosted him.
• OP did not attempt to purchase another label with another carrier like USPS and did not attempt to send funds for a label.
• The label that was uploaded to the return was uploaded as a JPG
• On the OP's other thread, a CS rep told the OP (copy of message posted here) that the buyer said the label was not valid and if the OP doesn't resolve that issue, the case will close in the buyer's favor (with a full refund from OP's account and no requirement for the buyer to return the item) if the label issue is not resolved by Friday the 19th, 4 days after the hold placed by CS expires. This is a key piece of information. Because this was escalated to a case, it appears to override kyle@ebay 's earlier timeline of the buyer having 10 days to return after the label was issued.

That leaves me with a question for the OP: did you test the label JPG by physically printing a copy to make sure the JPG was not converted to a low res or pixelated image when you initially converted it from a PDF?

Based on what Kyle said, CS will check that label, so if they find the buyer was truthful in saying it wasn't valid, you will lose the case since no further action was taken during the 4 day grace period.

My suggestion to the OP is to cover your bases and physically print from the JPG that was uploaded (not from the original PDF) to make sure there really are no issues with the label. Chances are it's fine, but with that deadline looming: cover yourself. If you find an issue with the label image then resolve it today.

[dqdistribution]

That's not true. The original carrier doesn't prevent an eBay return label.

All my UPS ground returns come back with a USPS priority label. I literally turned on require RMA to stop them from sending priority labels.

[amesrg]

"That leaves me with a question for the OP: did you test the label JPG by physically printing a copy to make sure the JPG was not converted to a low res or pixelated image when you initially converted it from a PDF?"

@wastingtime101 

Yes.  The original jpg and pdf were perfectly legible.  Ebay confirmed that fact, as did UPS.

I even had UPS scan it and email it to me and then sent that version on to the buyer.  UPS suggested I offer to have the label printed out at his store, sitting there waiting for him, an approach which would have completely bypassed any pixelation or distortion.  So I offerred that as a solution but I needed his store number and/or location, which he would not provide.

The claim that the label was illegible was demonstrably not true and I offered him several solutions that would have completely bypassed that issue.  So it's a fabricated problem.   Nonetheless, ebay's response has been "send more labels".

Regarding USPS, I would have been happy to use USPS.  There was NO option to purchase a return label with ANY carrier through eBay.  I don't know how to be more clear on that.

Regarding value over $750, the person I spoke to at Ebay said that was not a factor and would not have prevented me from purchasing a label.   Maybe that person was wrong.  I don't know.  But that's what I was told directly by an ebay person at an ebay phone number.  But whether or not that is correct is irrelevant now to me now.

All I can say for sure is there are obvious discrepancies between what people are saying here and what ebay is telling me through official ebay communications (as documented in this thread).  The fact remains that my buyer still hasn't made use of any of my return labels and ebay says he's about to get a refund without having to return the lens.

Hopefully kyle@ebay can answer my question above about the discrepancy between his statement and my experience.

[sin-n-dex]

---

@wastingtime101 wrote:

---

That leaves me with a question for the OP: did you test the label JPG by physically printing a copy to make sure the JPG was not converted to a low res or pixelated image when you initially converted it from a PDF?

---

I can weigh in on this... maybe. I had a buyer last year want to return something she "didn't like" but when I messaged with her about the issue, turns out it was supposed to be a SNAD (spots on the coin not well represented in the photos). Due to this being a SNAD and her having picked the wrong reason, I could not upload a PDF label to the request for her to use.

So I scanned it as a picture and sent it through eBay messages. She said she couldn't read the label. The buyer was very co-operative and we tested this at length, but could only determine if it's a JPG it gets converted to a smaller low resolution image where the addresses are not visible/clear, and things like the barcode are blurred.

I do not ask buyers for their email address. What I did find, is the email address that eBay provides works for emailing a PDF to the buyer, so that's what I did. We had tried sending PDF and JPG through many methods, by attaching it in the eBay message (the PDF is rejected, the JPG shrinks and goes into a low res image), I tried in my email box just replying to the message, but eBay sent a rejection notice that I can't send a PDF.

I could send it to the email on the sales order, btw, you have 15 Days to snatch that info or it's gone.  For this reason I go into my sales orders weekly and print all sales orders to PDFs attaching that contact info to each message, so I can dig it up 4 weeks from Thursday when the buyer needs a label and doesn't make the right type of return request. (Oh, and sometimes I just send labels, especially to repeat buyers, even though they're just not happy with it and it's not a real SNAD).

So if this label that was uploaded was a JPG, it probably isn't valid, because it's low res and can't be read. So when the buyer says the label's not valid, it's because he printed it out and can't read it. eBay can see what was sent and would probably make the same determination.

The buyer is being a bit of a jerk though by not co-operating with the seller on getting a label to return the lens. I don't think it's an actual scam, I think the OP just has a buyer like I had a few months ago that made claims, and did zero to co-operate to make it any easier to resolve (which was terminated by a BBL from my store... he was a repeat buyer, but making an INR on a delivered item and then not co-operating with the insurance claim so that it costs me money and not him, is a BBL offense here. He can buy his commemorative European Silver stuff somewhere else).

C.