How can I prove a return is unwarranted?

[elderberrypi]

I sold a beautiful camera to someone for $1,600. I took very good care of it for years and took it apart one last time to clean it carefully before shipping it to him. When it arrived, he sent a refund request, claiming every single mechanism was jammed. I know that's not possibly true. Why would anyone do this?

I accepted his return request, because -- what choice do I have? I purchased the label for him to use, but he decided to ship it "of his own accord." Today he finally uploaded a tracking number on the return page. He claimed to me at first that he was unable to add it anywhere. It still says, "Waiting for buyer to ship item." I don't know what to make of this and I'm scared to see what condition my camera will arrive in, or if he's sending me a box of rocks or what.

I wish I could take it apart and take pictures, showing that nothing is jammed and not have to lose all this money on expedited shipping, expensive insurance I paid for, signature confirmation, etc. Not to mention my funds are on hold in paypal. 

What do you think, guys?

[1grandmashope_1]

I am so sorry. I wish I had something other than don't sell anything online, here, or anywhere else, that you can't afford to lose. 

I will hope that your camera is returned as you sent it. I just wish that there was something more I could say.

Hoping for the best,

Grandma 

[iart]

Unfortunately, you can't count your money until the item is delivered and return period has ended.

I think trying to fight this is more bother than taking the hit. It is a he said/she said debate and when in doubt ebay sides with the buyer (as they probably should).

Hopefully, your camera will make it back and in good enough condition to re-sell.

[releasethekraken_1]

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@elderberrypi wrote:

I sold a beautiful camera to someone for $1,600. I took very good care of it for years and took it apart one last time to clean it carefully before shipping it to him. When it arrived, he sent a refund request, claiming every single mechanism was jammed. I know that's not possibly true. Why would anyone do this?

I accepted his return request, because -- what choice do I have? I purchased the label for him to use, but he decided to ship it "of his own accord." Today he finally uploaded a tracking number on the return page. He claimed to me at first that he was unable to add it anywhere. It still says, "Waiting for buyer to ship item." I don't know what to make of this and I'm scared to see what condition my camera will arrive in, or if he's sending me a box of rocks or what.

I wish I could take it apart and take pictures, showing that nothing is jammed and not have to lose all this money on expedited shipping, expensive insurance I paid for, signature confirmation, etc. Not to mention my funds are on hold in paypal. 

What do you think, guys?

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You took your $1,600 Hasselblad apart? Are you a professional camera repair person?

Photos don't prove that nothing is jammed, so no, don't bother. If you get back something besides your camera, start filing police reports and report it to postal inspectors.

[elderberrypi · Accepted solution]

No, I'm not a professional repair person, but a professional photographer. I regularly take apart my cameras for maintenance and to exchange parts. 

My thinking with the photos is that if I'm able to show the camera disassembled, then there's no way to claim it's "jammed." That just wouldn't make sense.

But I guess the answer is that it doesn't matter. That's the risk of selling on ebay I suppose. I've never dealt with a return before and I know this person is being dishonest. 

If he does send me something different, I think I'll do as you suggest and call the police.

[elderberrypi]

Thanks. You are right about that. Don't sell anything online you can't afford to lose. 

[ljmgoods]

YOU CANT PROVE IT  E BAY DONT CARE ABOUT  YOU BUYERS ALWAYS RIGHT.   THATS WHERE E BAY HAS LACKED  FOR MANY YEARS  DONT MATTER E BAY DONT CARE ABOUT SELLERS  ONLY BUYERS 

[jonathankirkland]

Did you state in the listing that the camera had been disassembled and reassembled for cleaning?

If not perhaps the buyer just doesn't like the fact  that he can tell it's been taken apart and that wasn't disclosed.

That is honestly the best hope in a case like this, and not that he's going to do a bait & switch on you. I hope you get back what you sent him...

If you do, be thankful, block him, and refund him and be done with it.

[48hrs-clothing]

Noted that return request has been accepted and I hope you sent the return postage label through eBay messages. 

I note that your buyer has advised you of a tracking reference and in my experience track& trace website will recognise and update information probably 24 hours after item was handed over and if he has loaded this on return case then you should see status change tomorrow.  Check the website some time around mid day tomorrow.

Please visit the return request and you should see a date that buyer must post the item back by and upload a tracking number. Postal service providers track& trace website must show that item is received by them and if this is not the case then I think 5 days past the post by date you can call eBay and escalate the case and as there is no information on track& trace website confirming shipment eBay will close the case in your favour and your funds at Pay pal will be released. 

If at a later date you do receive the package and if everything is in order you can then contact eBay and seek their advice on how to refund the buyer and get your final value fees back. 

If your buyer is a scammer and you receive the package before eBay case is closed and content is not what you sent then consumer law and distant selling rules require you to issue a refund and eBay as a platform are forced to enforce these laws.

Before refund is issued you must telephone eBay customer services and advise them of all problems with the returned item. Please keep in mind that all eBay can do at this stage is to record your comments and advise you of best way to move forward.

I would expect them to say issue a refund or don't and to either send buyer a message with photographic evidence showing returned item. You and eBay know that buyer is not going to accept your evidence and admit that he tried to scam you and all you are doing is building a case history.

Having done this I would expect eBay to close the case in favour of buyer and issue a full refund.

eBay will advise you to either file a police report and send them a copy including police incident report number.

eBay may decide at this point to accept and grant your appeal (Seller not at fault) and return your funds to you.

eBay will bear the cost and matter is closed.

If case is filed on Pay pal then different law applies and all your buyer is required to prove is that he returned a package to your address and Pay pal have no alternative but issue a full refund to him and debit your account.

Please accept my apology for such a long message but I wanted to cover all points in hope that this gives you some comfort and hope that there is still a chance that things will work out and you may not be out of pocket.

All is not lost and all you can do is deal with events as they unfold.

Good luck and stay safe.

[m60driver]

Whether the return is warranted or not is the least of your concerns.  Your primary concern  is getting the item you sold back and getting it back in the condition you sold it.  Ebay has absolutely no qualms about acting as a middleman fence operation in such a theft and I fear if you do get something back it is more likely to be a rock in a box than a camera.  Sure, if you get a rock back you can go through the motions of notifying your local police, the buyer's local police, and USPS for all the good it will do you.  As others noted, never sell anything on Ebay you can't afford to lose.  Nobody is paying you Prime Membership fees that will help cover your losses.

[releasethekraken_1]

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@elderberrypi wrote:

No, I'm not a professional repair person, but a professional photographer. I regularly take apart my cameras for maintenance and to exchange parts. 

My thinking with the photos is that if I'm able to show the camera disassembled, then there's no way to claim it's "jammed." That just wouldn't make sense.

But I guess the answer is that it doesn't matter. That's the risk of selling on ebay I suppose. I've never dealt with a return before and I know this person is being dishonest. 

If he does send me something different, I think I'll do as you suggest and call the police.

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How would showing the camera disassembled prove that the shutter isn't jammed?

[elderberrypi]

It won't prove that, but it would prove everything else. 

[elderberrypi]

So I got my camera back today, poorly packaged of course. Even though I know I will lose, I am appealing this refund request. The buyer clearly does not know how to use a mechanical camera. They can take the money back, but I'm not giving it to them willingly like some fool. I took the camera apart out of the box and uploaded pictures of everything he claimed was "totally jammed". I even took closeups of the lens clearly open, despite his claims otherwise.

Also worth noting, the buyer uses the word "buddy" to an extent that I want to wring his neck. Every other word is ,"hey, buddy".."hi, buddy!".."buddy this, buddy that!" "hey, bud!" My inbox is flooded with messages from this lunatic.

In one message he even tells me he has never owned a camera like this before. I sent him the manual and a detailed video on how to use it because I could tell he was a novice. It's a mechanical camera! You NEED to know how every single part works manually. He sent it back with the advancing crank stuck tightly in place from trying to force it. The funny thing is that as soon as this guy started sending me pestering messages, I tried blocking him. Somehow his messages kept coming through and he ended up buying the camera. I did not want him to get it! I knew he would be trouble. I even linked him a listing from another seller to buy the camera from someone else! 

Also, the person who suggested he might be upset finding out that I  took the camera apart. I hear what you are saying, but that doesn't make sense in this case. Since it's a mechanical camera, you HAVE to take it apart in order to use it. That would be like a buyer being upset that he bought used shoes only to find that the laces has been undone. 

lol, why the heck should i have to lose money to ebay when I did nothing wrong? And now my camera has wear from this amateur trying to force its mechanisms? Anyway, just venting here guys. I am a very small time seller but from my 180 or so sales so far, I can tell this platform has major issues. I guess I will relist the camera and put it as "sold as is." I think I will never make any claims whatsoever as to the condition of any item I sell online. 

[ljmgoods]

well here's what's  funny  you  said  sides  with  buyer  im the seller without me  there is  no buyer hello .when is seller  number 1 and not the buyer  the seller puts items  up to make money  not lose money 

[eizner23]

i feel for you buddy (lol)

must factor in stupidity selling expensive gear online, scrutinize them @ holes before releasing item!