Has Anyone Ever filed a Report for theft and/or Mail Fraud?? How did it go?

[froggyjump]

I have a buyer who purchased a couple of razors from me. 3 feedbacks. They are from 1983. I stated they are unused.

She/He contacted me first via messages to ask the model #. I had to go buy a magnifying glass to read it, as it was raised lettering same color as the body at a perculiar location. She verified correct model number but now has photos and says there was hair all over it. That the plug part that goes into the razor is blue. Beings I had to buy a magnifying glass and this is stated within our ebay messages, I know for sure I used it to check the razors over. The photos she has are unbelievable.

Being a Christian, I could really care less what happens but know i need to file a police report and federal mail fraud report because this is a professional. The price is very low as I got them for free anyhow and obvioulsy, it would be easier just to refund her. No biggie but that would be participating in her crimes, abetting her.  Thanks for any advice or experience you can share with filing a federal mail fraud report & police report. She is in Northbrook, Illinois

[froggyjump]

Here is a copy of my reply. I'll update if I have any further issues with her but otherwise, just approve a refund if she sends the item back I sent her.

Those are not the razors I sent you. Both were tested, examined VERY CLOSELY as we corresponded regarding the model number which I could not find. I looked all over that razor, taking each plug out, testing it, and removing the blade which easily pops off.

Being a Christian, I cannot give you your money back for an item when that is not what I sent. I am sure you understand that. I also am going to need to file a police report if any money is removed from my account against my will. Those are my beliefs. This was clearly a set up. And your account is not new, you are way too experienced ebayer to be providing photos so quickly. My son handles this account, yes ebay employees can have their own ebay accounts. So we'll see what he says.

Until then, any money removed I will be filing a police report over. Also a report for federal mail fraud. I've never had to do this before, but certainly have an obligation to as you are clearly a professional. And if I were to agree to refund you, I'd be a party to your crimes. The victims identity here doesn't matter.

If you would like to return MY razors, that is an option you've had from the beginning. I will obviously not accept whatever that is in those photos of yours.
If you need this money so bad you need to steal it, that's fine too. Just understand I have an obligation to not only refuse you, but to ensure there are no further victims of your scam.

[coolections]

Looking at the pictures, to me those razors do not look at all new. The plugs look  worn, the colors of the plugs are different, and even the pouch they come in look used.  I don't think any type of fraud reports will work for you and can see why the buyer is upset. Obviously I cannot see hair but maybe you are mistaken ?

[retrose1]

Hi OP.

Ok, I'll do a quick sum up.  In my personal opinion New should only be used for items that are factory new being sold by authorized distributors.  When a seller used new for anything but that they open themselves up to problems because the seller has no idea what has happened to the item while it was sitting on a shelf for years.

It isn't police and mail fraud reportable until your money has been taken through fraudulent claims.

Your message to the buy-uh-potential scammer just lets them know that you don't know how to deal with this and can easily be scammed. 

After the sale, if a buyer has a problem, you do NOT try to justify, defend, or explain anything about your listing, yourself, your ship methods, your packing, or your item.  Doing so will give scammers information they can use against you OR if you have a buyer with an honest problem, it does nothing to solve their problem.  You be brief and give them only one option and no personal information.  And give them an out they can take.

Ok, I would have sent something like this......

Dear buyer,

I am sorry that you are unhappy.  Are you sure that you have the right seller, because my item is ... and your pics show .... ?  If the item in your pics is from me, then I will let the post office know by filing reports that someone is rifling their packages and exchanging the merchandise inside.   I will speak to the postmaster of your branch and if possible, your delivery person to see if the package was tampered with and if not, I will contact your local police about porch theft of mail.

Please let me know how to proceed

Me

I usually never hear from them again.  What this does is let any potential scammers know that you will get them on radar they don't want if they continue and gives them an out by being able to say they made a mistake.   And they have no new information to use or profile me with.

If they continue, tell them to return the item, and then follow through with the police and using the mail to fraud reports if you get something back that wasn't what you shipped because the minute you get something back - ebay will expect you to refund.  Report the buyer to ebay.

Now, in answer to your question, does reporting for mail fraud work.  Yes, it does.  But you will not see evidence of it unless you are willing to invest some time to check back later.  I have reported several professional scammers to the PO and the PO has reacted and months later the ids are no longer buying and/or selling on ebay anymore.  If thre are a lot of complaints against a person, the PO can and will shut down internet access of postage so they can not print labels and can and will cut service to their houses.  I have personally witnessed a person being turned away from the counter from shipping a package because their address was flagged in the system.

So if you do everything correctly, things can work the way you think they should.  A person just has to know how the rules work first.

[siayan]

These things are pretty cut and dried. There is no reason to give big explanations. Ebay has things set up that you really don't control a lot of things. It is best to stay professional and not get personal.

1. you should realize that not all sales will go smoothly. Set a number in your head of the loses you will have. Mine is $250 per year. I have never come close in 20 years of selling.

2. If someone doesn't like an items tell them, "I apologize the my item is not up to your expectations. I offer a full refund. You may open a case with eBay and I will accept the return. Again I apologize for the inconvenience." This will allow you to see where the buyer is coming from. Are they fishing for a partial or do they want a return? You don't have to tell them which reason to use, let them figure it out.

3. If the return is made accept it and move on. 

This is the way things are going to go, you can make it hard or you can make it easy. I prefer to get these things behind me fast and move on. Some like to drag it out and make it into the crime of the century. Why get all worked up over it? 

[adrianappl0]

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@froggyjump wrote:

Being a Christian, I cannot give you your money back for an item when that is not what I sent.

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What does being a Christian have to do with it?

Threatening the buyer with the police was a bad move. Never threaten, just do it.

However, with that said, those razors were no where near NEW and UNUSED. The one cord looks gross, the other looks like its being wrapped with a rubber band (not standard packaging), the paperwork is water stained, the bad looks used and wrinkled.

As your buyer to return them for a full refund, and use it as a lesson: If you dont accurately describe your items, youre more likely to get returns.

I also doubt the police or postal inspectors will give much priority to a sale of less than $30 with shipping

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

You sure tell people you're a Christian a lot. It's really nobody's business but yours. Are you implying people who believe in other religions or are secular atheists are lying scammers? That's how it sounds to me and probably to other people you deal with.

Religion has no business in business.

[arun7500]

When I was in California, I had 2 files packed. One for bounced checks, and one for Fraud reported to ebay. Solution, stopped taking personal checks, and stopped reporting anything to ebay. No way to collect on the checks, and total waste of time reporting anything to ebay.

[oldngold]

Is she in Missouri? I nailed a thief from Kearney , Mo. with the police, sheriff and internet fraud, paypal/ebay refunded when I filed and joined a class action suit against them (yes you can sue ebay/paypal if you notify them you are NOT agreeing to arbitration).
File complaints with your states' attorney generals office as well as hers as well as California and Utah.... where ebay/paypal are located.

[vintagecraze50]

I think the point the op is trying to make is that people get away with switching items and getting free new items here and that she wants to be prepared to file the reports if she does not get her original item back. I think that it would be a good practice for sellers to report these people when they do these things on a individual sale by sale basis. The thing about that is that once a buyer does this a number of times and gets these reports on them eventually something might be done if they are serial thieves.  Conversely, the more they engage in theivery without any consequences they continue to do so here and everywhere else. So, op go ahead and do a report if you get the wrong item back.

[adrianappl0]

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@morty14 wrote:

When I was in California, I had 2 files packed. One for bounced checks, and one for Fraud reported to ebay. Solution, stopped taking personal checks, and stopped reporting anything to ebay. No way to collect on the checks, and total waste of time reporting anything to ebay.

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What on earth are you talking about? Your posts rarely make much sense...

[adrianappl0]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

I think the point the op is trying to make is that people get away with switching items and getting free new items here and that she wants to be prepared to file the reports if she does not get her original item back. I think that it would be a good practice for sellers to report these people when they do these things on a individual sale by sale basis. The thing about that is that once a buyer does this a number of times and gets these reports on them eventually something might be done if they are serial thieves.  Conversely, the more they engage in theivery without any consequences they continue to do so here and everywhere else. So, op go ahead and do a report if you get the wrong item back.

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I thought the point the OP was tying to make is she refuses to take the return because non Christians are scammers.

OP flat out was "mistaken" in listing her items as new. They are very very obviously used. If you make that kind of "mistake" then whos to say youre not "mistaken" in calling your buyer a liar....

[vintagecraze50]

If they get back something they did not send it does not matter what religion you believe in. If she sold a used item that she believes did not look like the one the buyer sent pictures of and she gets back an entirely different item then What is that? 

[vintagecraze50]

Yeah, I would leave out the Christian part in any of my dealings with customers. Ethical seller is a better way to put it sans the religious overtones.

[itsjustasprain]

@coolections wrote:

Looking at the pictures, to me those razors do not look at all new. The plugs look  worn, the colors of the plugs are different, and even the pouch they come in look used.  I don't think any type of fraud reports will work for you and can see why the buyer is upset. Obviously I cannot see hair but maybe you are mistaken ?

I cannot see why in the world this would be listed as a new set. For one thing they didnt come in packs of 2. You get 1 electric razor in a kit. Maybe the older one on the left wore out and someone bought the replacement on the right. The one on the left shows obvious age yellowing - ESPECIALLY the plug which looks like it sat out in the sun a lot. The one on the right looks good but clearly used. The power cords on both have been twisted and unfolded and coiled up casually and the one on the right even has a rubber band around it. I would hope that they were at least cleaned of hair ect. - but its really a stretch to call the set new and unfortunately this is what happens if you do. Were these even plugged in to test? The description does not say.

To the OP - If this was my listing - 1 - I would have dumped the shaver on the left and 2- I would have tested the one on theright and then pacled it up as neatly as possible and listed as Used. I would have also taken a lot more than 1 photo so that the buyer does not get too many surprises. 

Really i have to say that the buyers emails do not sound too unlikely as it sounds like the buyer has examined the item more thoroughly than you did. Digging in your heels on this one is not going to go well. This is not a huge sum of money we are talking about and no it is not the principle of thing but it is a matter of clearly showing what you have for sale. It just doesnt look as described and with only 1 photo and pracitcally no description there is no way that anyone can dig deeper. Just take it back for a refund and move on.

If it comes back in usable condition then do a more thorough repacking of the kit - take more photos - write more description - and it may sell for even more next time.

[katiecamelfoot]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

If they get back something they did not send it does not matter what religion you believe in. If she sold a used item that she believes did not look like the one the buyer sent pictures of and she gets back an entirely different item then What is that? 

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She sold it as NEW. Its clearly not. Ethical sellers dont sell used, kinda dirty looking items as new.

I just have trouble believing the buyer is lying based on the OP's listing.