Hallelujah!!!!... paypal is backing off its policy change.. !!!

[lasantino]

yeahhh,,

i just got off the phone with paypal.... 

i was complaining about their new policy that was to go in to effect today ,, regarding.. they will not keep the 3% transaction fees on purchases even if the item is returned..

The paypal rep(located in the us).. gave me the good news.. paypal received so much pushback.. they are putting a  hold on the policy change..!!! I.E.  for now,, they WILL NOT be keeping the transaction fees on every purchase, .. thus,, when sellers get a return or cancelation.. all fees other than the 30 cents will be returned to the seller!

[mam98031]

Something else to note.  In concert with the PP policy change, if you are in MP, you would be affected by both fee increases.  The one by PP whenever they actually start to apply it and the transaction fee by MP.  As MP wouldn't refund the processing fees if they don't get refunded.

[nc-daydreamer]

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@greg5000 wrote:

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@lasantino wrote:

yeahhh,,

i just got off the phone with paypal.... 

i was complaining about their new policy that was to go in to effect today ,, regarding.. they will not keep the 3% transaction fees on purchases even if the item is returned..

The paypal rep(located in the us).. gave me the good news.. paypal received so much pushback.. they are putting a  hold on the policy change..!!! I.E.  for now,, they WILL NOT be keeping the transaction fees on every purchase, .. thus,, when sellers get a return or cancelation.. all fees other than the 30 cents will be returned to the seller!

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Maybe they had a chat with their legal team, who told them this probably can and will be challenged in litigation, or via numerous State Attorney Generals getting involved.

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Can we hope that the same conversation might be held with eBay about their fees, defects and such? Based on the fact that eBay appears to have gotten away with it, I was expecting PP would skate too... So, if PP really has come to their moral senses and taken the "high road" on this issue, any hope that eBay might follow suit? Or as another poster pointed out on another thread - "how low can eBay go"? (Do we really want an answer to this?)

[mam98031]

What do you feel is illegal about Ebay fees?  Which fees?

[nc-daydreamer]

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@mam98031 wrote:

What do you feel is illegal about Ebay fees?  Which fees?

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It was not me who said anything about the fees being illegal. You have me confused with someone else perhaps. 

[equid0x]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

Again,, I'm sure paypal must have gotten some pushback from their legal department.  that's why they put the info out as an internal memo.. etc..   I hope its an actual reversal of the policy change. However, I"m sure they are trying to figure out if they can implement the change without hitting legal snags..

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Earlier you said:  their attempt to keep a percentage of the transaction ,, even when the transaction ends up being reversed i believe does have some legal implications...  

The transaction did occur; reversing it doesn't mean it never happened.  There isn't anything illegal about paypal not refunding the fees.

I, of course, am not at all in favor of or excited about not receiving the fee refunds we've been used to but I've always been surprised anything was refunded at all.

And I agree with ersatz; I think this is a programming or something like that issue that is causing the delay, not a paypal suddenly had a let's-rethink-this moment.

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If you have a normal merchant account the percentage fee is not charged across all transactions, only those that are completed. A reversed transaction is not a completed transaction. 

Also, normal merchant accounts typically pay a flat rate up front for up to X# of transaction (say 1000) THEN you get charged a per transaction fee which was 5 or 10 cents not 30. Also, the percentage charged on completed transactions is much lower - like half - possibly with the exception of AMEX which was always higher and is one of the reasons a lot of businesses refuse to take AMEX. 

In a B&M credit card transactions get "batched out" at the end of the night. The CC company only gets totals for the transactions. If a customer cancels a pre-auth(which is what you're doing when you "run" the card) then there is never a transaction # assigned like it never happened and the auth will expire after 10 days. 

If they come in and run a refund then its a separate transaction # in the batch but the monthly fees are charged against the total _completed_ transactions. When a refund is issued, this is taken out of the balance owed before any fees are calculated. 

[equid0x]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@klickonline wrote:

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@cstpos wrote:

I called a week later because of another cancellation request, and they transferred me to someone who was pretty snippy in telling me that are not refunding any fees and that the new policy is what other companies have done for years.

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You should have asked him on the spot to please name the e-commerce companies/merchants that do this.  Because  Ebay doesn't, Amazon doesn't, Walmart doesn't, all the other 3rd party marketplaces don't, Visa doesn't, Mastercard doesn't, etc etc.   I bet you would have been greeted with silence.

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Amazon charges what they call an Admin Fee when a refund is processed.  It isn't as much as the original fee, but a fee for a refund nonetheless.

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Can't really compare the two. Amazon isn't a merchant account processor. When a customer buys from you on Amazon, the money goes to Amazon, who then pays YOU according to your contract with Amazon(a week or two later). 

When you run a transaction on PayPal, the money goes directly to the seller. 

Amazon can charge a fee because you have a contract with Amazon allowing them to do that. You're basically Amazon's employee. (In fact, part of this has already been won in court. Give it a few years and Amazon is going to have to start providing benefits to third party sellers because what they are doing now is in direct violation of the FLSA). 

If PayPal (merchant account processor) starts middle-man'ing transactions then they've lost their legal protections and will get the scrutiny of the FTC. A 2.9% fee increase will (and likely has) gotten the FTC's scrutiny because for a publicly traded company, they DO have to justify such an increase and show that it is inline with "industry standards" which I am certain it is NOT(assessing a 2.9% penalty for a refund is not something any other merchant processor does). Its also the same reason they're being required to separate their personal accounts into external bank accounts. 

Its kinda the same problem Facebook is having now with the censorship. If they want to be a "common carrier" then they must remain a disinterested third party and cannot regulate the speech that occurs on their site. The second they start regulating they've lost those protections and are now liable for anything that is said on their site, because they've chosen to self-regulate it. 

[edwedw8383]

Since you've been selected for misdirected replies, eBay has stated that the eBay Inc account on PayPal will be used to take PayPal payments. The numbers have recently become clearer, so how's that going to work:

1. PayPal charges eBay 2.9% plus 30 cents for a $100 purchase.

2. eBay charges the seller 2.7% plus 25 cents, apparently losing money.

And what happens when the buyer goes directly to a PayPal dispute for INR, SNAD, or UA?

[mam98031]

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@edwedw8383 wrote:

Since you've been selected for misdirected replies, eBay has stated that the eBay Inc account on PayPal will be used to take PayPal payments. The numbers have recently become clearer, so how's that going to work:

1. PayPal charges eBay 2.9% plus 30 cents for a $100 purchase.

2. eBay charges the seller 2.7% plus 25 cents, apparently losing money.

And what happens when the buyer goes directly to a PayPal dispute for INR, SNAD, or UA?

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I'm not aware of Ebay announcing what rates PP and Ebay have agreed to.  It doesn't have to be the same rates as sellers are use to seeing.  Ebay and PP are free to negotiate their own contract rates.  Just like PP does with other large companies.

So speaking for myself, I have no knowledge of what Ebay's PP rate will be and I doubt they will ever willingly tell us.

I'm not sure about your last question.  It's a good one, I just don't have an answer.

[clu3]

One might assume that the base fee takes into account some level of returns.  I don't have time to research the statistics, but it's likely safe to say that returns are a smaller portion of total sales.  That should be baked in.

I don't disagree with Paypal keeping the 30 cent transaction fee per return but do take issue with the full percentage charged to the seller.

If returns are getting out of control, start charging the buyer that 3% as a restocking fee.  Buyers should have some level of responsibility.

[klickonline]

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@equid0x wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@klickonline wrote:

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@cstpos wrote:

I called a week later because of another cancellation request, and they transferred me to someone who was pretty snippy in telling me that are not refunding any fees and that the new policy is what other companies have done for years.

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You should have asked him on the spot to please name the e-commerce companies/merchants that do this.  Because  Ebay doesn't, Amazon doesn't, Walmart doesn't, all the other 3rd party marketplaces don't, Visa doesn't, Mastercard doesn't, etc etc.   I bet you would have been greeted with silence.

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Amazon charges what they call an Admin Fee when a refund is processed.  It isn't as much as the original fee, but a fee for a refund nonetheless.

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Amazon can charge a fee because you have a contract with Amazon allowing them to do that. You're basically Amazon's employee. (In fact, part of this has already been won in court. Give it a few years and Amazon is going to have to start providing benefits to third party sellers because what they are doing now is in direct violation of the FLSA). 

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Can you provide a link or something similar to this assertion that 3rd party sellers are Amazon's employees per a court win?   Thanks.

[edwedw8383]

Why, is it so hard to do our own research?

amazon flsa case