albertabrightalberta
mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@broto_64 wrote:
When a buyer opens a chargeback they only lose IF a case was already opened (and closed) through the merchant (aka ebay), it appears odd to me in this case the OP stated a return was in fact opened (and closed in the seller's favor)... So the question here is, was this an actual case or just a remorse return?
Because there's returning an item, and then there's INAD (which invokes the powerful MBG).
And I don't believe ebay would close an INAD case in the seller's favor, perhaps in extremely unusual circumstances they might but we're talking odds of winning the lottery here.
Upon reviewing some of the seller's more recent listings (because I can't access an item sold in December) I find the seller has a policy of "Seller does not accept returns" and now it is starting to make more sense, if a buyer had indeed opened a return of course ebay would close this in the seller's favor and the "a) and b)" reasons matter nothing because it's simply the fact the seller has a No Returns accepted policy (and that is why ebay closed the case in the seller's favor).
Let me repeat that:
The buyer opened a remorse return, and ebay closed this in the sellers favor simply because the seller's No Returns policy and not because "ebay obviously sided in my favour because of A) time and B) it was now in pieces." Had the buyer opened an actual case for reason "Item Not As Described" (aka INAD) then ebay would have most likely forced the seller's hand in terms of a refund, but again that did not happen.
Case vs return, minor but important distinction, especially once we consider the seller's actual returns policy. Because a case invokes ebay's Money Back Guarantee (MBG) and that is ironclad buyer protection, had this transpired in actuality the buyer would've likely won in the first place... As well I believe the buyer likely could've still opened such a case, although the original return having been closed may have prevented that, I am not sure about the logistics here.
But the buyer did not open a case, the buyer attempted a remorse return (which failed) that is why they were then able to open (and win) a chargeback with their financial institution.
Of course ebay doesn't really "Fight" for the seller, that is complete hogwash but I do believe the returns policy and the original reason for return (and subsequent closure in the seller's favor) had everything to do with the ultimate outcome.
As for what to do now, that could be a difficult row to hoe and may never result in any sort of true win for the seller.
Actually, @thesalvageguys hasn't returned to tell us exactly what kind of return request the buyer opened. I assumed (probably incorrectly) that it was NAD and also assumed (probably incorrectly) that he appealed and won the appeal because the buyer had significantly altered the item.
And if that is the case, my post #37 would indeed apply and having won a previous dispute, seller protection would have kicked in.
If I've incorrectly interpreted the original request as a NAD win and the actual return request was remorse, the OP would have been within his rights to deny the return.
Of the OP's 7K+ current listings, only 60 accept returns so I'm inclined to bet that the item in question was NOT a returnable item.
And if that's the case, it's the reason why @thesalvageguys lost the chargeback.
I respect you disagree. I take no issue with that. It doesn't make me wrong and you right nor does it make me right and you wrong. We simply disagree.
"... eBay had the ability and duty to respond." You are assuming Ebay did not respond. I don't know that to be true and it likely isn't. INADs are simply hard to win, they can be sometimes, but it isn't easy. INR and buyer claiming they don't recognize the charge are sometimes won before the seller ever chimes in as Ebay has already submitted info to the CCC.
We had the same issues with Chargebacks when PayPal handled them. It isn't unique to Ebay.
@sumsum70 wrote:"The easiest thing to do is blame Ebay when Ebay has NO CONTROL over the Chargeback system. That is all about the Credit Card Companies."
That is a bunch of bovine feces and it gets said too often here. A properly disputed chargeback is easily won if the seller is in the right. The problem is eBay doesn't put any effort into defending other peoples' money.
If I were the seller out ten grand, I can't say everything I would do, but it would start with immediately following the eBay arbitration process and demanding eBay pay for it. Also, many cities news have consumer advocates. Maybe stealing a 10K engine with eBay's blessing would be a good story. You can directly sue the buyer for the loss in small claims court. You do other stuff too, like register the buyer's name as a domain and publicly shame them for their behavior (keep it truthful).
And then there are other options...
To win a Chargeback is often dependent on the reason for the Chargebacks. You are correct that some are won easily, that has been shared a few times on this thread. If it is an INR or the buyer saying they don't recognize the charge, those two reasons are common and easy to win with the correct info. Many times they are won before the seller ever chimes in because Ebay sent the info needed to the CCC.
INADs are simply harder to win. Not to say they can't be won, but they are harder. Some info will be subjective, some he said/she said, some factual information, etc. Just because a seller says it is as stated in the listing doesn't mean it is as stated in the listing. And the buyer is claiming it isn't as stated in the listing. A hard thing to prove one way or the other. So usually the CCC sides for their customer.
Now that is not to say that some INADs are won, because they are with proper evidence.
I agree with you about the OP's case and what we currently know about it. If there are not twists to it that we are not aware of it does appear that Ebay should have covered the OP.
