Got Screwed by Ebay - Need some help

[thelewisstore]

I used to be a seller 19 years ago and recently started selling again recently. As it worked well in the past, I decided to not accept returns by default, although would happily do so if something proved to be an issue caused by myself. 

I sold a laptop with a weak battery to someone, the listing was ultra clear that the battery was weak, anyway, you know what's coming, the buyer received the item and immediately opened a return dispute before even contacting me. I asked him for proof that it wasnt work, he stopped responding. eBay denied the dispute and appeal even though I had all the receipts including a conversation with them beforehand stressing the condition of the battery. I came to find out that this is just the way eBay works now. 

The buyer is not responding now, what are my next steps? Can I open a dispute against him for not returning the laptop? I don't know how I get it back now. Do I need to take him to small claims? I'm pretty sure this was his intention all along, he only had 1 review, but seemed to know ebay very well... Although I'm frustrated that ebay just sent my money to the buyer, I just want my laptop back now...

[iwasl_55]

19 years ago was the last time you sold something on ebay? Yes, ebay has changed very much since then. You're in for a rude awakening. The "seller always wins" era is long gone. 

[klhmdg]

Buyers do not have to contact the seller before filing a dispute.

When the buyer filed, did you accept the return and supply the shipping label?

Buyers do not have to supply the seller with any proof.

No returns does not mean no refunds.

If eBay stepped in and refunded the buyer, the buyer keeps the item and gets a refund. The seller gets a defect on their selling account and still owes the FVFs.

Anytime a buyer files Not As Described, the best thing for the seller to do is approve the return and supply the label. Once the item is returned the seller refunds. 

[lakefor94]

You can try small claims in the buyer's jurisdiction. 

As you found out, a seller can have a no returns policy but it is trumped by ebay's MBG for buyer's.

Always approve the return and issue a return shipping label IF you want the item returned before issuing the refund.

Or you will just be refunding without a return as you selected.

[lb23cavaliersmvp]

That's not quite true that the buyer doesn't have to provide proof if they are refusing to return the item. We just had a situation where the buyer claimed damage without proof to us, we accepted the return and the buyer appealed to ebay to get to keep the item and receive a refund which was initially ruled approved. We appealed, an option once ebay sends you a notice of a decision in favor of the buyer, and because the buyer didn't provide proof to ebay the decision was overturned in our favor.

[klhmdg]

@lb23cavaliersmvp  proof to eBay and proof to the seller are 2 different things.

Sellers cannot demand proof before accepting a return.

I have never heard of a seller approving a return and eBay deciding that the buyer can keep the item and get their money back.

But strange things go on here sometimes....

[bonanza125]

Let this be a learning lesson. When a buyer files a claim against you accept the return. As you learned as a seller you not only lost the case as in money but also the item. They are no longer obligated to return the item. The next time this happens accept the return, get your item back and then sell it to someone else. If you would have accepted the return and the buyer didn't send the item back you would have been able to keep the money.  No proof of the item being not advertised correctly is needed for a buyer to make returns. Also as far as small claims you can file a case but keep in mind the cost of doing so. Is the value of this item worth your time and money to pursue a claim through court?

[kensgiftshop]

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@lb23cavaliersmvp wrote:

That's not quite true that the buyer doesn't have to provide proof if they are refusing to return the item. We just had a situation where the buyer claimed damage without proof to us, we accepted the return and the buyer appealed to ebay to get to keep the item and receive a refund which was initially ruled approved. We appealed, an option once ebay sends you a notice of a decision in favor of the buyer, and because the buyer didn't provide proof to ebay the decision was overturned in our favor.

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The difference is, you accepted the return, the OP didn't.

The only thing a buyer has to provide is a photo when they start the return.

[kensgiftshop]

You can try small claims court, but it might cost you more then the laptop.

[simba6]

When a buyer opens a case, you have to respond with a paid return label.   Or else.

[mtgraves7984]

I came to find out that this is just the way eBay works now. 

@thelewisstore 

And nobody can take that ^^^ away from you. Welcome back to the jungle.

[mam98031]

@thelewisstore 

That is a long time away from selling.  So many things have changed in two decades.  Did you update yourself on the different return policy option and what they actually mean?  You have a misunderstanding as to how a No Return Policy works on Ebay.

I am sorry this happened to you, but I will advise you as I do all new sellers, you need to do your homework BEFORE listing.  By doing that you can avoid this kind of upset.  Ebay did what Ebay does in a case like this.  And if you had updated yourself you would have found that out.

A seller with a No Return Policy can NOT prevent a buyer for opening an INAD [item not as described].  All buyers have that right given to them by the MBG [Money Back Guarantee] to open a dispute.  

Now a seller with a No Return Policy can deny this claim ONLY if the buyer filed a proper Buyer Remorse Request for Return.  You can allow them to return the item at their expense or you can out and out deny it.  But it has to be a claim filed using a Buyer Remorse Reason.

Buyers that file for a return because the item isn't as described, damaged, etc., even the seller with a No Return policy is REQUIRED by the MBG to process that claim.  If you try to deny it or fight it, in a few days an option appears on the dispute that if checked by either the buyer or the seller will have Ebay step in and make a decision.

Now that is NOT something a seller should do as 99.9% of the time Ebay rules for the buyer.  And because you are fighting the return or refund of this item, Ebay would absolutely rule for the buyer and force you to refund them.

Because you have a No Return policy Ebay assumes you don't want the item back, so they do not require the buyer to return the item.  As a seller you will not get your FVFs refunded and you will get a Defect on your account for not resolving a dispute.

I know that much of this sounds harsh.  But please know it is avoidable by learning how the site is currently and not assuming it may be like it was 20 years ago.  You can rebuild a nice business here.  I know this likely upsets you a great deal but it is doable.  But I encourage you to update your self on at the minimum of the basic rules.  If you want more information, just ask.

[mam98031]

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@lb23cavaliersmvp wrote:

That's not quite true that the buyer doesn't have to provide proof if they are refusing to return the item. We just had a situation where the buyer claimed damage without proof to us, we accepted the return and the buyer appealed to ebay to get to keep the item and receive a refund which was initially ruled approved. We appealed, an option once ebay sends you a notice of a decision in favor of the buyer, and because the buyer didn't provide proof to ebay the decision was overturned in our favor.

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You are assuming the buyer is "refusing" to return the item.  That is not necessarily true. See my post to the OP on how this happens when a seller has a No Return Policy.  While you may not agree or like it, it is how it works.

[mam98031]

@thelewisstore 

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request.  Or if they want to, they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus, if the seller so chooses, they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they use options 4 or 5 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies, they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also, Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.