Good news for sellers.

[ittybitnot]

If you don't feel like taking your own pictures and writing your own description...not to worry.  Just use someone else's on eBay.  Its ok now, and no longer a policy violation.  

See today's Weekly Chat.  The first post is from the user that is having issues with photo thieves.  See message #3. The second is the first reply from ebay staff, see message #8 that says and message #22 that says:

"I understand that many sellers invest large amounts of time and money into their listing photos and this is a great practice for their businesses. While we no longer consider it a violation for another member to use your photos, you do have the option of messaging the seller and asking them politely to not use your photos to see if they would be able to choose an alternative. Keep in mind, they are not violating eBay policy if your photos have been used on the site, so this should be framed as a friendly request if you choose to contact them. "

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Community-Chat-May-8-1-00-pm-PT-General-To...

This seems very contrary to providing a great buyer experience:  Show them Item A, and ship them Item B.  We have been wondering why, even if a seller becomes a Vero member, their complaints go ignored.  Next thing we know all the sellers of CCC will be using photos of the REAL thing in the name of (insert your word of the day) consistency, efficiency .  

Quotes from the discussion:

"As for our adjustment to allow for photos posted to eBay to be used by any seller, this was introduced as a part of our focus on product based shopping and...."

"Allowing our sellers to utilize photos that match the product they are selling creates consistency and efficiency within our platform, allowing for a better experience overall. "

Good luck with this, be you a buyer or a seller.  I do not see this as a "good thing" whatsoever.  I look at it more that ebay got tired of dealing with it, so made it OK to do and no longer against the rules. 

[gamersbaystore]

Permitting someone to use your copyrighted content does not grant them permanent usage. That usage can be revoked at any time. Owners of copyrighted content always hold all rights to their content under federal law.

[jeannicho22]

Wondering what would happen if sellers joined the VERO program.  Photos are absolutely someone's intellectual property and I'm not certain how eBay can countermand that.

[jeannicho22]

---

@ittybitnot wrote:

I've thought we've known..

for several years

That photos we upload

are part of eBay's content.. and available to any other seller who wishes to use them from the catalogue.

The discussion is not about "catalog" photos.  This is more like me snagging your photos from your listing and posting them on a listing of my own.  For example, supposed you are selling used tennis shoes.  I come along and just snag your photos for my used tennis shoes.  Its ok to do now.  Buyer is none the wiser that the shoes I am selling are not the shoes they are going to get.  If you see no problem with this, that is fine. That is why we have discussions. 

Though we know eBay has done little about photo thieves over the past year or so, they did allow sellers to become VERO members.  Ebay is supposed to act on VERO member's complaints, not ignore them or pick and choose which ones they will enforce, and which ones they won't.  If that is the case, then the whole VERO takedown program was a farce from the start. 

---

Had not yet gotten to this post about becoming VERO members.

[Anonymous]

---

@ittybitnot wrote:

If you don't feel like taking your own pictures and writing your own description...not to worry.  Just use someone else's on eBay.  Its ok now, and no longer a policy violation.  

See today's Weekly Chat.  The first post is from the user that is having issues with photo thieves.  See message #3. The second is the first reply from ebay staff, see message #8 that says and message #22 that says:

"I understand that many sellers invest large amounts of time and money into their listing photos and this is a great practice for their businesses. While we no longer consider it a violation for another member to use your photos, you do have the option of messaging the seller and asking them politely to not use your photos to see if they would be able to choose an alternative. Keep in mind, they are not violating eBay policy if your photos have been used on the site, so this should be framed as a friendly request if you choose to contact them. "

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Community-Chat-May-8-1-00-pm-PT-General-To...

This seems very contrary to providing a great buyer experience:  Show them Item A, and ship them Item B.  We have been wondering why, even if a seller becomes a Vero member, their complaints go ignored.  Next thing we know all the sellers of CCC will be using photos of the REAL thing in the name of (insert your word of the day) consistency, efficiency .  

Quotes from the discussion:

"As for our adjustment to allow for photos posted to eBay to be used by any seller, this was introduced as a part of our focus on product based shopping and...."

"Allowing our sellers to utilize photos that match the product they are selling creates consistency and efficiency within our platform, allowing for a better experience overall. "

Good luck with this, be you a buyer or a seller.  I do not see this as a "good thing" whatsoever.  I look at it more that ebay got tired of dealing with it, so made it OK to do and no longer against the rules. 

---

Hi @ittybitnot, as I've discussed in other threads, the seller is responsible for describing their item accurately and would be accountable for a refund if they  "Show them Item A, and ship them Item B." I understand that you are frustrated with this policy, and your feedback will be shared with the appropriate teams. If a seller is the right's owner to a photo that they have used outside of eBay, and another member of our Community uses that photo without permission within eBay, that seller can report this to our VeRO program and we will take appropriate action. If that seller is not receiving the proper response, a member of the Community Team will be happy to look into their concerns.

[Anonymous]

---

@sharingtheland wrote:

---

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

From the Weekly Chat discussion:

"Allowing our sellers to utilize photos that match the product they are selling creates consistency and efficiency within our platform, allowing for a better experience overall. "

But taking photos from another seller will NOT match the product someone else is selling. Therefore it CANNOT create consistency, but introduces chaos. It certainly gives the "borrower" an efficient experience but not anyone else, not the owner of the photos, nor the buyer of the copied item. Thus, it will NOT allow for a better experience overall. The only initial benefit will be to the dishonest or lazy seller. And when their item comes back to them as SNAD, then their benefit disappears as well. REALLY BAD POLICY CHANGE.

---

I thought the same thing when I read that.  And this:

"Allowing our sellers to utilize photos that match the product they are selling creates consistency

is simply not the case; the photos don't necessarily match the product.

I was shocked at the his factual statements - no weasel words.

There's a reason why I don't read Weekly Chat until after it ends; it's the only way to keep my fingers away from this keyboard.

---

Hi @sharingtheland, I apologize if there was some kind of confusion - if a seller is not using a photo that matches their item, then they are not following eBay policy to describe the item accurately. 

If you have a brand new item and you use a photo of a brand new item, then there is no reason that this photo would cause any issues, as both items are the same. If you have a used item with unique defects and you use a photo of a different item with different defects, you are not describing your item accurately and thus not following eBay direction. 

A seller's ability to use another member of the community's photos is not the same as the ability to misrepresent their item - the item needs to be described accurately. If a seller does not do this, there may be consequences. If a seller uses a photo that matches their item, then there is no issue with consistency.

[city*satins]

If a seller is the right's owner to a photo that they have used outside of eBay, and another member of our Community uses that photo without permission within eBay, that seller can report this to our VeRO program and we will take appropriate action. If that seller is not receiving the proper response, a member of the Community Team will be happy to look into their concerns.

OK normally I'm not into WHAT ABOUT....but I'm going to make an exception here and do a WHAT ABOUT.... (not Hillary's emails)

So what about if one of those sellers (whom we've advised NOT to use their kids as models)  lists items with pictures of their children modelling their NWT maid costumes and other cute halloween apparel , or baby clothes - tries to report another seller using those pictures of their children to advertise the adult version of those styles of clothing for their SISSY BOY  or ADULT BABY offerings.

Apparently the response will be that it's not a problem because the first seller wasn't a VERO member and can't prove that they published the pictures somewhere off eBay first.  So they're fair game.

What could possibly go wrong, right?

Or is that not what would happen?

P.S.  please define  "used outside of eBay"

[hillbillymedia]

"Not if you transferred usage rights to another party, which you do by uploading them to eBay per the eBay user agreement. If a random third party with whom you have no agreement, on Youtube for example, uses your image in a non-fair-use context, then DMCA applies."

Do you mean like when I go to google images and find all my ebay photos there? I`ve always wondered how all my auction photos get uploaded to google and if money is ever exchanged.

[ittybitnot]

that seller can report this to our VeRO program and we will take appropriate action. If that seller is not receiving the proper response, a member of the Community Team will be happy to look into their concerns.

Trinton.  Sellers that ARE INDEED VERO members, and joined to protect against  their  photos and text  from being used by other random eBay sellers, are being told by CS that eBay will no longer act on such reports.  Have we not been told for years that eBay is required to act on such  reports that come through the VERO members program?   Can ebay now pick and choose which VERO complaints they want to address?  

Indeed I understand the "risk" that a picture thief may be taking by using someone else's pictures as their own.  However, it seems to me allowing that misrepresentation in the first place does nothing to foster trust on the part of an ebay buyer. 

I suppose I have been here too long.  There was a time when "stolen" pictures was an indication of a scam, not a favored practice to provide consistency and whatever other reasons are presented to make this policy seem like another ebay "enhancement". 

[hillbillymedia]

---

@hillbillymedia wrote:

"Not if you transferred usage rights to another party, which you do by uploading them to eBay per the eBay user agreement. If a random third party with whom you have no agreement, on Youtube for example, uses your image in a non-fair-use context, then DMCA applies."

Do you mean like when I go to google images and find all my ebay photos there? I`ve always wondered how all my auction photos get uploaded to google and if money is ever exchanged.

---

Hey ebay.....why do my pictures show up in google images but my listings seldom seem to?

[partsman330]

I do not believe in using stock or anyone else's photos. Unless you are selling new in box product stock photos do not work and will result in nothing but poor experiences for buyers as well as the seller. Buyers face the disappointment of not receiving exactly what they saw and sellers face the hassle of dealing with said upset customer. IMO this is the cornerstone of online selling (like I said, unless you are selling the same, NIB product) and stock photos are an Amazon specialty.. which is why I would never buy anything used or anything not NIB on there.

I recently found another seller using my pics. It was even more irritating bc they used my pic, copied my exact listing, and undercut my price. It was like I did all the work for them to steal my customer. Poor, poor policy for sellers.

Such policies are not good for anyone in the long run... but neither are many MANY others ** shrugs shoulders **

[Anonymous]

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@city*satins wrote:

If a seller is the right's owner to a photo that they have used outside of eBay, and another member of our Community uses that photo without permission within eBay, that seller can report this to our VeRO program and we will take appropriate action. If that seller is not receiving the proper response, a member of the Community Team will be happy to look into their concerns.

OK normally I'm not into WHAT ABOUT....but I'm going to make an exception here and do a WHAT ABOUT.... (not Hillary's emails)

So what about if one of those sellers (whom we've advised NOT to use their kids as models)  lists items with pictures of their children modelling their NWT maid costumes and other cute halloween apparel , or baby clothes - tries to report another seller using those pictures of their children to advertise the adult version of those styles of clothing for their SISSY BOY  or ADULT BABY offerings.

Apparently the response will be that it's not a problem because the first seller wasn't a VERO member and can't prove that they published the pictures somewhere off eBay first.  So they're fair game.

What could possibly go wrong, right?

Or is that not what would happen?

P.S.  please define  "used outside of eBay"

---

Hi @city*satins, if a seller chooses to include photos in their listing that they publish to eBay, regardless of the content or models, they are giving permission for eBay and it's members to use their photos. If they are concerned with the individuals in the listing photos being used by others, they should not use those photos or those models.

Outside of eBay is anything not on an eBay site. If your photos are on your personal blog, you find them being used on eBay, and you have never uploaded these photos to eBay, this would be something you could report to our VeRO team for appropriate action. If you upload a photo to eBay at any point, it does not matter if that photo is also on another site, the fact that you have uploaded it to our site is permission for eBay and other sellers to use that photo.

[Anonymous]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

that seller can report this to our VeRO program and we will take appropriate action. If that seller is not receiving the proper response, a member of the Community Team will be happy to look into their concerns.

Trinton.  Sellers that ARE INDEED VERO members, and joined to protect against  their  photos and text  from being used by other random eBay sellers, are being told by CS that eBay will no longer act on such reports.  Have we not been told for years that eBay is required to act on such  reports that come through the VERO members program?   Can ebay now pick and choose which VERO complaints they want to address?  

Indeed I understand the "risk" that a picture thief may be taking by using someone else's pictures as their own.  However, it seems to me allowing that misrepresentation in the first place does nothing to foster trust on the part of an ebay buyer. 

I suppose I have been here too long.  There was a time when "stolen" pictures was an indication of a scam, not a favored practice to provide consistency and whatever other reasons are presented to make this policy seem like another ebay "enhancement". 

---

Hi @ittybitnot, this policy does not allow for misrepresentation - a seller needs to accurately describe their item. Just because they can use a photo from another eBay listing does not mean they can us any photo and fulfill their requirement to accurately describe what they are selling. 

As for your VeRO concerns, if you would like to get me an example to review I will be happy to help. As it stands, if a person has rights to a photo that they did not upload to eBay, they would be able to report this for removal. Additional documentation may be required to prove rights ownership, and if this is not happening as it should I can take steps to investigate.

[Anonymous]

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@fashunu4eeuh wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

I'm certainly sorry this policy has caught you off guard.  I remember how I felt when I read the update to the UA a few years back when they included this.  There was lots of chatter on the threads about it.  It was in an effort to support the Ebay catalog.  They also didn't want us watermarking our pics so that anyone could use them as well.  All this was happening around the same time.  

I know it is upsetting, but it isn't new.  It's been like this for a few years now.

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Hi Mam, I beg to differ. The wording in the Images and Text policy was altered around March of this year. Until then, using another seller's pictures not included in the catalog was still considered a policy violation. There was a link in the body of the policy for a member to follow in reporting the infraction. It clearly stated that a member should not use another member's material  without permission-- unless it was found in eBay's catalog. I remember this because I had been helping a newbie with that policy, and had studied it so I could advise them. Then, like within a day, it was changed.

Ironically, it still states that sellers should not use pictures copied from sources like the internet because it could be copyright infringement. But I do understand what you are saying. Ebay has been moving in this direction for awhile. However, this Image and Text policy change is new.

---

Hi @fashunu4eeuh, I want to clarify that there are times where our help pages may be out of date, and potential update to our help page that you refer to this past March would not be an indication that the policy changed this past March, only a sign that we discovered misinformation that did not align with our User Agreement. The currently stated policy does align with the user agreement change we made a few years ago.

[tree*fern]

My thoughts on this aren't fit to print.  I hate it when my photos (which took time and work) are stolen.  

Being a good, compliant eBay seller, I spent a lot of time and work re-doing photos to remove my watermarks. 

There's a seller in India who stole my clearly watermarked photo showing my ID, and they keep listing at the same time (undercutting price, of course) as my now non-watermarked listing.  EBay won't do anything about it, of course.

I wouldn't be surprised if some U.S. buyers see that and avoid my listing, mistakenly thinking the Indian seller and I might be the same seller, with a U.S. address or warehouse but actually shipping from overseas.  Grrr.

[abfabvintage]

@Anonymous 

Sorry, coming very late to this thread...First off...I do not list anything in your eBay catalogue. So tell me, do I have to get my pix copyrighted or join Vero to stop other sellers plagiarizing my work? Although I sell one off vintage/collectibles, last year I listed a not so mainstream pottery planter. If I had not gone to Advanced Search to see where my active planter was sitting in search, I would never have found this newbie seller copying my planter pix  and description word for word. The only safeguard for me was they were too stupid to realize the item Specifics had my AbFab ID number, let alone my exact description...No work for them. Just steal and put it up.

Back then, I was able to ebay message her to have her take the item down, not ebay. And she complied but with the comment "didn't know she couldn't do that and she used the Want to sell one like this or some other ebay clickable whatever. Bottom line: So how do I preserve all my work creating the pix, measuring, writing the scripts, etc. etc. Thanks for your response.