Getting fed up with the game of international bidders and sellers

[nationalpawnshop]

Last year we had several incidents (four, actually) where we sold an item to someone located outside the US, but with a "re-shipper" address in the US. Until these we really didn't care where anyone was located. Our only restriction was on not shipping overseas because dealing with customs declarations was more time consuming than it was worth.

These four incidents followed the same scenario. We sold an item and shipped it. A couple of weeks later we received a message from the buyer that they wanted to do a return but that we would need to send them additional funds to cover return postage from their home country. Obviously we didn't comply and under the circumstances we were not required to by eBay. And while none of them resulted in a return each incident was an aggravating waste of our time and we thus decided that we would not sell or ship to anyone located overseas, regardless of their shipping address. This morning, out of 9 auctions with winning bids, I found one based in the Ukraine and another based in Columbia. While cancelling bids may be a fairly simple procedure we feel that we shouldn't have to bother. If we can restrict our listed shipping preference to the US only why can't we do so for buyers location?

Buying something should also be straightforward but, apparently, isn't. If we're looking for a particular item and run a general search we can filter Item Location to US Only. But, why not, Seller Location? How many times have we ordered something where the item location was California or New Jersey and then it turns out the seller is located in Hong Kong?

If eBay is trying to force us to sell to anyone, anywhere, regardless of our preferences, then why bother being able to filter the search to US Only? Why should the item location matter? Why should the buyers location matter? Why should we be allowed shipping restrictions but not selling restrictions? Why shouldn't we have the option of choice all the way instead of just selectively?

We're not trying to be xenophobic; we're just trying to avoid time wasting and aggravation.

[castlemagicmemories]

Buying something should also be straightforward but, apparently, isn't. If we're looking for a particular item and run a general search we can filter Item Location to US Only. But, why not, Seller Location? How many times have we ordered something where the item location was California or New Jersey and then it turns out the seller is located in Hong Kong?

Search doesn't really need this filter as it only takes you are few seconds to click on the seller id and check the country he is based in.  If it isn't on the profile page, click to the actual feedback page and it will be listed there.

This is how you avoid buying something that has an item location of CA or NJ  and finding out the seller was in Hong Kong.  Also CA and NJ are port cities which is a clue in and of itself.

[castlemagicmemories]

 Our only restriction was on not shipping overseas because dealing with customs declarations was more time consuming than it was worth.

You might consider using the ebay GSP.  You ship to the Hub in KY, they take over from there.  You are only responsible for getting the item intact to KY.

Pitney Bowes assumes responsibility thereafter.

[ittybitnot]

Selling to a buyer who uses a "reshipper" address is not always problematic.  With ebay, a buyer that uses this service voids the terms of the "Money Back Gurantee", so you will not be responsible for funding postage for a return. 

 Though PayPal has no such rule,  return shipping for a SNAD is always on the buyer's dime when a PayPal complaint is made. 

Using the eBay GSP (global shipping program),  still leaves the seller open for funding return shipping from an international destination for SNAD claims unless they are specifically for "damaged in shipping". 

If you don't want to deal with international buyers that use a reshipper, basically your only choice is to block them from paying.  This is a preference found in PayPal. ...."deny payments from non-US PayPal accounts".  Everyone should alread use the block  of "deny payments in a currency I do not hold"....to prevent getting paid in Euros, etc. 

[penguins_dont_fly]

@nationalpawnshop wrote:

[Our only restriction was on not shipping overseas because dealing with customs declarations was more time consuming than it was worth.]

I'm curious as to why you think using system generated customs forms is overly time consuming?

International customs forms/labels print the same way domestic labels do. All you have to do is sign them....And on PayPal and other postage providers, you don't even have to do that. The forms print with an electronic signature.

Print, sign (or not), attach, ship.

[mam98031]

Maybe this will help.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

Not covered

• Buyer remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn’t as described in the listing (see the seller’s return policy for return options)
• Items damaged during local pickup
• Local pickup items that were not collected by, or on behalf of, the buyer
• Items not delivered, damaged during collection, or damaged during shipment when the buyer arranges pick-up or shipping of the item (for instance, the buyer arranges freight)
• Duplicate claims through other resolution methods
• Items shipped to another address after original delivery
• Vehicles (see eBay Vehicle Protection), Real Estate, Websites & Business for Sale, Classified Ads, services, Digital Content, Intangible Goods, and some Business Equipment categories (see eBay Business Equipment Purchase Protection)
• Items sold through Sotheby's

Sellers are subject to this policy even if the transaction was completed on another eBay site.

It is likely that none of them ended up in a return because your buyer actually knew that the transaction did not qualify for Buyer Protection with Ebay but was hoping you didn't know that.

In our Site Preferences, under Buyer Requirements, we as sellers have a handful of option in which we can block certain buyers.  But there is no block available on Ebay to block International Buyers.  The block that is available is to block International buyers that do NOT have a US ship to address.

I as many other sellers have shipped to international buyers with US ship to addresses for years with rare issues.  I hope this information helps you.

[little.font.lord.leroy]

This is what you say happened?

1. You have set your auctions to ship US only, due to customs declarations.
2. Someone outside of the US used a transfer shipping service to received the item.
3. They PMed that they wanted to return the item, and for you to pay the extra postage.
4. you refused.
5. You are now aggravating because of the waste of your time.
6. You are so incensed by this, that you now monitor your bidders and cancel any bid from someone located outside of the US. And "having" to do so is a bother, you feel.

7. Meanwhile, you are also miffed when Hong Kong sellers lie and say they are located in the US.

For 1-6 my gut reaction is: Boo Hoo. You seem to have spent more time coming here to kvetch and then go about canceling bidders then a simple eMail reply to the effect of "I do not ship outside of the US, and I do not pay for return shipping from outside the US."

If you are so easily bothered, perhaps retail sales is not for you. There are plenty of aggravating aspects to sales and dealing with the public. It goes with the territory.

I might add, for any seller who wishes to receive the highest price for their item, that the winning bidder is not the "most important bidder", the top losing bidder is. The second place bidder determines the final price. If the top bidder has automatic bid of $500.00, and the second highest bids $499.00, they pay $500.00, but if the second highest bidder bids $20.00, the top bidder gets a $500.00 item for pennies on the dollar.

It doesn't matter if that second highest bidder is located nearer the Löwenbräu Brewery (Munich) or the Shotz Brewery (Milwaukee). Canceling those bidders seems foolish and extreme.

But I do agree with your complaint about misrepresenting item location (7 above).

[nationalpawnshop]

A couple of brief clarifications.

 1. We've been in retail since 1945 and on eBay since 1999 (a couple of weeks shy of our 20th anniversay!)

2. As regards customs declaration. It's not just a matter of the additional steps to take and, maybe this too has changed over time, but we got weary of the requests that we lie to customs and declare an item as an "unsolicited gift" so that the buyer could avoid duties. One day, last week, the two of us who work the online sales had 37 items to pack and ship out in one day. We barely had time to get all those done without having to spend any additional time dealing with overseas shipments.

3. Most of our current listings have, as part of the description, the following: "NOTE: We do not sell to buyers who are located outside of the US regardless of the location of their shipping address. While we cannot prevent such sales from happening we can, and will, cancel any transaction of a buyer located outside of the US. Also, we do not accept payments from PayPal accounts that are not registered in the US." That also appears translated into 15 different languages (from Spanish to Vietnamese). But, of course, that presupposes that anyone can be bothered to actually read our conditions.

We are a brick and mortar retail business and our eBay sales are a small part of our daily business. The point I'm trying to make is that for the most part it's all simple and straightforward but all too often we run into these speed bumps. I can ignore the message making an offer on an active auction but if someone in the Russian Federation wins an auction or hits a BIN I have to take time away from other responsibilities to cancel the transaction. All I'm asking is why, if I can restrict our shipping preferences to the US I can't restrict sales to those located overseas?

[dogofwar777]

I stopped shipping overseas a few years ago, when I sent an item to France and saw it was delivered according to tracking, yet three weeks AFTER it showed delivered the buyer filed a complaint through paypal and my account was locked until it was resolved. Luckily the person I talked to at paypal agreed something fishy was going on because the buyer never contacted me about not receiving their item or asking where it was and the tracking number clearly showed it was delivered three weeks before the complaint. They ruled in my favor and I swore off selling overseas. 

[pjcdn2005]

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@dogofwar777 wrote:

I stopped shipping overseas a few years ago, when I sent an item to France and saw it was delivered according to tracking, yet three weeks AFTER it showed delivered the buyer filed a complaint through paypal and my account was locked until it was resolved. Luckily the person I talked to at paypal agreed something fishy was going on because the buyer never contacted me about not receiving their item or asking where it was and the tracking number clearly showed it was delivered three weeks before the complaint. They ruled in my favor and I swore off selling overseas. 

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Perhaps there is more to the story but was this one claim (which you won)  the only reason that  stopped selling overseas?  Have you ever had a claim from a US buyer? 

Although it is definitely your right to decide where you want to ship to, it surprises me when anyone stops selling to everyone outside of their own country because of just one problem.   I've read tons of similar posts  obviously many feel that way but I can't relate to that mindset.

[pjcdn2005]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

 Our only restriction was on not shipping overseas because dealing with customs declarations was more time consuming than it was worth.

You might consider using the ebay GSP.  You ship to the Hub in KY, they take over from there.  You are only responsible for getting the item intact to KY.

Pitney Bowes assumes responsibility thereafter.

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The seller is still responsible for return shipping if the item is  not as described and it is considered to be the sellers responsibility.

[mam98031]

I understand not wanting to ship internationally.  With the stuff I sell, there is about half of my listings I will ship worldwide and then the other half I will only ship to the USA and Canada.

But you aren't really talking about shipments being shipped internationally.  You can stop that, so that should not be a issue. 

It appears to me what you don't like is an international buyer using a US ship to address.  This is a completely different situation than shipping internationally, because you aren't shipping internationally.  There are no custom forms to be filled out.  There is no extra work involve.  You just process them as you would any other sale to be shipped to a US address.

So I'm unsure of the issue you actually have.  Where does the "extra work" come from?

As to your disclaimer on your listings.  As you know that is not anything you can enforce.  And if it is your choice to cancel a transaction with an international buyer because you don't want to ship to their US address, then unless you are selecting an incorrect reason, you are getting a defect each time you file the cancellation for seller reasons.  Too many of those and you will drop to Below Standard and have to pay the FVF penalty fees.

If you are selecting the reason for the cancellation as problem with the buyer's address.  That would be an incorrect reason as your issue is that they are an international buyer.  Not the same thing at all.  

[pjcdn2005]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

If you don't want to deal with international buyers that use a reshipper, basically your only choice is to block them from paying.  This is a preference found in PayPal. ...."deny payments from non-US PayPal accounts".  Everyone should alread use the block  of "deny payments in a currency I do not hold"....to prevent getting paid in Euros, etc. 

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It's not necessary to use the 'deny payments in a currency I do not hold' block as it is impossible to get paid on ebay in any currency other than the currency the item was listed in.  Buyers can pay in their own currency but the seller will always receive the payment in the listing currency.

I've never used that block and have always been paid in Canadian dollars if the item was listed on .ca and in US dollars in the item was listed on .com.  If buyers had a choice of choosing how to pay me...that would mean that whenever a Canadian bought an item that I had listed on .com in $US,  I would receive the funds in Canadian dollars since I hold that currency.  But that doesn't happen...they could pay in Canadian and that money is automatically converted to US dollars.

[myboardid]

First, you need to understand that you DO NOT have a choice about shipping to buyers who use US based re-shippers.  You can block their non-US payments through Paypal but if the re-shipper pays the bill for them with  US account (happens often), then you have no way to prevent it.  If you cancel such an order, you will get a MAJOR defect, and a few of those will get you suspended permanently from selling. 

You have had a few times that an overseas buyer has wanted to return an item.  You have replied politely that you do not provide funds for such a return (except if it is a Not As Decribed claim you must do so by sending a pre-paid label to the re-shipper's address).  That is all you have to do, and it takes only a few seconds to answer in that way.  The HUGE majority of the time your sales will go smoothly and there won't be any request for a return, yet you will give up these sales in order to prevent having to send out a quick reply message to someone requesting funds. 

You need to re-think your procedures.  You don't have to participate in the GSP program if you don't want to, but dealing with the buyer who uses a re-shipper is really a very, very small deal, and as I said above, you really can't choose not to.

[mam98031]

You have had a few times that an overseas buyer has wanted to return an item.  You have replied politely that you do not provide funds for such a return (except if it is a Not As Decribed claim you must do so by sending a pre-paid label to the re-shipper's address).  That is all you have to do, and it takes only a few seconds to answer in that way. 

Even if the buyer files a SNAD, the seller does not have to honor it.  The seller just needs to contact Ebay and let them review the records so they can get the claim closed.  Once a buyer has an item re-shipped from the original address the seller has the order delivered to, the MBG is void.