Final value fee of what the item did not sell for

[pere-loui]

Dirty rotten eBay is up to theft, money stealing tactics again. It was necessary to cancel an auction and eBay decided to take a final value fee of what the item did not sell for ! Without authorization!

This is not the first time EBay tries to screw the sellers. There's has to be a way to get a refund as like I said this is an unauthorized debt from my account!

[mam98031]

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@lakefor94 wrote:

"Without Authorization", What is eBay going to do, call the seller and request permission to bill the seller account accordingly?  

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They don't have to.  All members agreed to the User Agreement when they created their account.

[mam98031]

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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@inhawaii wrote:

I have some bad news for you ... you did authorize it.

Perhaps you should read up on cancelling auctions early.

No rip off here.

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Nope no rip off, no way, no how - If its written somewhere in the tos, its no harm no foul -  its just the site taking deserved funds to stay in business right? - Brings to mind a current thread where a poor soul had 2 bidders in a bidding war of an item he had a $40(approximately) "Buy It Now" on - These crazy bidders take the price up over 13,000 and the worried seller kills the auction - He gets a bill from ebay to the tune of $1500 or something like that - Yeah its just the site doing what they do - no harm no foul right Hawaii?

Considering, in my opinion, the EXTREME lack of protection this site offers its sellers and the very few tools you have to protect yourself from bad buyers, don't you just love it when the site cashes in on one of those few tools left? To the tune where anyone who hasn't slogged through the TOS trying to protect themselves gets caught in the trap... Yeah they got your back alright - though, from our experience, seems they don't have a problem sticking the knife in it - Happy ebaying everyone...

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This is an issue easily resolved.  All that seller needed to do was contact Ebay and explain what happened.  It is highly likely Ebay would have refunded the fees unless the seller has a track record of cancelling auctions with bids.

[mam98031]

I've been in that situation before, not quite as high as 13k, but way over what the value of the item was.  I too cancelled the auction.  

It is a lot of money and to be in limbo for up to six months [because of chargebacks] is a lot to ask of a seller.

[mam98031]

" If the auction has finished, you can contact the winner and, if they agree, you can cancel the transaction."  For it to be a correctly filed cancellation with the reason the buyer requested it, the buyer has to reach out to the seller and ask for the cancellation, not the other way around.  Unless something has changed, that is how it has been explained to me before.  But as we all know, things change often around here, so it is hard to keep up on everything.

[mam98031]

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@steve_stuff wrote:

"If the auction has finished, you can contact the winner and, if they agree, you can cancel the transaction."

Not really - two/three years ago we were getting ghost listings every week or two - was able to cancel active listing with or without bids, but with the fixed price and last second bid/win ones we contacted the buyer, explained what happen and even sent them a photo of the original 'your item sold' message [we keep them all] showing that it sold weeks/months/years earlier and was long gone. Everyone agreed to us cancelling -

Six months ago got a message from ebay basically saying that the bots had noticed we were asking people to agree to cancel - even send the rule[s] and a list of which items with the amount [$20/25] of fees 'avoided' - and say 'no action will be taken at this time' but don't do that again.

Luckily we haven't had another ghost till a few days ago but it was a scheduled listing so was able to get rid of it before it went live. 

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Thank you for sharing that @steve_stuff .  Ebay has said they are cracking down on sellers that misuse the Cancellation system.  Your example is a good one.

[isaiah53-57]

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@broto_64 wrote:

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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@inhawaii wrote:

I have some bad news for you ... you did authorize it.

Perhaps you should read up on cancelling auctions early.

No rip off here.

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Nope no rip off, no way, no how - If its written somewhere in the tos, its no harm no foul -  its just the site taking deserved funds to stay in business right? - Brings to mind a current thread where a poor soul had 2 bidders in a bidding war of an item he had a $40(approximately) "Buy It Now" on - These crazy bidders take the price up over 13,000 and the worried seller kills the auction - He gets a bill from ebay to the tune of $1500 or something like that - Yeah its just the site doing what they do - no harm no foul right Hawaii?

Considering, in my opinion, the EXTREME lack of protection this site offers its sellers and the very few tools you have to protect yourself from bad buyers, don't you just love it when the site cashes in on one of those few tools left? To the tune where anyone who hasn't slogged through the TOS trying to protect themselves gets caught in the trap... Yeah they got your back alright - though, from our experience, seems they don't have a problem sticking the knife in it - Happy ebaying everyone...

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While I do agree that $13,000 is enough to concern a seller it still doesn't warrant ending the auction. What that seller should have done is allow the auction to complete, then await payment and either ship the item once payment is received or... When payment isn't received (because this is the most likely scenario) 4 calendar days after the listing ended, the seller can cancel the order by selecting the Cancel order button  and choosing Buyer hasn't paid in the drop down menu. At this stage unless the buyer pays shortly ebay cancels it in the seller's favor without fees of any kind... Granted it involves waiting and being patient so if a seller can't wait there is always the option of cancelling instantly and paying the fees.

As was already stated you really do need to read up on policies, things on ebay work in a particular and sometimes a very peculiar fashion but they do work and if you work them correctly you will not come out the loser.

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Problem is, in the real world, no one reads the legal speak of Privacy Notices and TOS's - They are designed the way they are purposely - If people read these things, they would likely not opt in to most TOS contracts - Some TOS's have been outed on National news with warnings, but it doesn't stop many, because seems people are more interested in watching Tik-Tok or YouTube videos rather than being concerned about their personal well being and willing to literally signing away their God given, assumptive rights for a FREE service - Yeah FREE for a FEE - there is always a cost.

Most people are going to assume at least the bare minimum of protection and rights, and rightly so, but we are talking about corporate America here, who's only concern is the next quarterly report -  What was once common and expected protections and rights have vanished in the legal speech of TOS's - and people are unwittingly paying the price for assuming any amount fairness in business...

You may know these things, because you have been here a long time and have a presence on these boards, but I would bet dollars to donuts, 8 out of 10 people selling here won't know about this money grab until it hits them upside the head...

[wastingtime101]

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@mam98031 wrote:

" If the auction has finished, you can contact the winner and, if they agree, you can cancel the transaction."  For it to be a correctly filed cancellation with the reason the buyer requested it, the buyer has to reach out to the seller and ask for the cancellation, not the other way around.  Unless something has changed, that is how it has been explained to me before.  But as we all know, things change often around here, so it is hard to keep up on everything.

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That quoted line was copy/pasted from the linked policy page. I copy/pasted the entire section without dissecting every sentence. You're correct that buyer has to initiate the request to cite buyer requested. If seller asks the buyer and buyer agree to the cancellation, then it's supposed to be put through as an out of stock cancellation. eBay may forgive an occasional misuse of buyer requested, but if it's a habit the seller will be caught as @steve_stuff demonstrated with their post.

We've all seen eBay policy pages that are in need of update. It appears this is one of them.

Hi kyle@ebay . Can you have this policy page reviewed for correction?

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/creating-managing-listings/ending-listing?id=4146

Specifically, this misleading text:

If the auction has finished, you can contact the winner and, if they agree, you can cancel the transaction.

[mam98031]

@isaiah53-57 

Not reading an agreement / contract you agreed to [or accepted] and/or signed to is not a legal defense.  IDK if you numbers are right or not but I would bet they are close.

[monroe67]

"Problem is, in the real world, no one reads the legal speak of Privacy Notices and TOS's - They are designed the way they are purposely - If people read these things, they would likely not opt in to most TOS contracts - "

Have you read eBay's User Agreement?  Specifically Item 5, Fees and Taxes?  When you do, be sure to click on the hyperlinks within it, which redirect to more detailed info.  

For the most part, eBay's User Agreement is written in simple English and without legalese.  

In this thread alone, two people have copied and pasted eBay's chart that explains when a Final Value Fee (FVF) is charged when an auction is ended before its scheduled time.  I honestly believe a 10-year-old child could read that chart and understand why the OP was charged a fee by eBay.  

[isaiah53-57]

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@monroe67 wrote:

"Problem is, in the real world, no one reads the legal speak of Privacy Notices and TOS's - They are designed the way they are purposely - If people read these things, they would likely not opt in to most TOS contracts - "

Have you read eBay's User Agreement?  Specifically Item 5, Fees and Taxes?  When you do, be sure to click on the hyperlinks within it, which redirect to more detailed info.  

For the most part, eBay's User Agreement is written in simple English and without legalese.  

In this thread alone, two people have copied and pasted eBay's chart that explains when a Final Value Fee (FVF) is charged when an auction is ended before its scheduled time.  I honestly believe a 10-year-old child could read that chart and understand why the OP was charged a fee by eBay.  

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What does this have to do with the reality of the matter? That people dont take the time to slog through most of this stuff and RIGHTLY assume (whether right or wrong), they should have at least the bare minimum of protections and common sense fairness when dealing with a publicly traded company

Posting these "charts" here where likely 3% of ebay sellers come is doing little to help - and can actually be detrimental due to the judgemental attitude of the full-time posters here...

Assuming 8 out of 10 sellers are aware of this money grab that was once a common right and protection that has been slowly degraded over the years where it is now gone as a protection - In my opinion, thats EXACTLY where the company likes it, because I believe, from experience, they have NO PROBLEM taking money undeservedly out of seller pockets..

[farmalljr]

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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@broto_64 wrote:

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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@inhawaii wrote:

I have some bad news for you ... you did authorize it.

Perhaps you should read up on cancelling auctions early.

No rip off here.

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Nope no rip off, no way, no how - If its written somewhere in the tos, its no harm no foul -  its just the site taking deserved funds to stay in business right? - Brings to mind a current thread where a poor soul had 2 bidders in a bidding war of an item he had a $40(approximately) "Buy It Now" on - These crazy bidders take the price up over 13,000 and the worried seller kills the auction - He gets a bill from ebay to the tune of $1500 or something like that - Yeah its just the site doing what they do - no harm no foul right Hawaii?

Considering, in my opinion, the EXTREME lack of protection this site offers its sellers and the very few tools you have to protect yourself from bad buyers, don't you just love it when the site cashes in on one of those few tools left? To the tune where anyone who hasn't slogged through the TOS trying to protect themselves gets caught in the trap... Yeah they got your back alright - though, from our experience, seems they don't have a problem sticking the knife in it - Happy ebaying everyone...

---

While I do agree that $13,000 is enough to concern a seller it still doesn't warrant ending the auction. What that seller should have done is allow the auction to complete, then await payment and either ship the item once payment is received or... When payment isn't received (because this is the most likely scenario) 4 calendar days after the listing ended, the seller can cancel the order by selecting the Cancel order button  and choosing Buyer hasn't paid in the drop down menu. At this stage unless the buyer pays shortly ebay cancels it in the seller's favor without fees of any kind... Granted it involves waiting and being patient so if a seller can't wait there is always the option of cancelling instantly and paying the fees.

As was already stated you really do need to read up on policies, things on ebay work in a particular and sometimes a very peculiar fashion but they do work and if you work them correctly you will not come out the loser.

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Problem is, in the real world, no one reads the legal speak of Privacy Notices and TOS's - They are designed the way they are purposely - If people read these things, they would likely not opt in to most TOS contracts - Some TOS's have been outed on National news with warnings, but it doesn't stop many, because seems people are more interested in watching Tik-Tok or YouTube videos rather than being concerned about their personal well being and willing to literally signing away their God given, assumptive rights for a FREE service - Yeah FREE for a FEE - there is always a cost.

Most people are going to assume at least the bare minimum of protection and rights, and rightly so, but we are talking about corporate America here, who's only concern is the next quarterly report -  What was once common and expected protections and rights have vanished in the legal speech of TOS's - and people are unwittingly paying the price for assuming any amount fairness in business...

You may know these things, because you have been here a long time and have a presence on these boards, but I would bet dollars to donuts, 8 out of 10 people selling here won't know about this money grab until it hits them upside the head...

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While I hear what you are saying....

THE PROBLEM IS, you as a user are AGREEING to a CONTRACT. It's your sole responsibility to understand the contract you are agreeing to.  None of the excuses matter, as to why someone might not read it or fully understand it. If contracts were not binding and did not have real meaning, law would fall to pieces and all contracts would be meaningless. It's the user's job/responsibility to understand the contract and to follow the terms. If it's too much or too hard for them to grasp, then they probably have no business entering the contract. But because they do, they ARE bound to the terms, regardless of how anyone "feels" about it. 

[simba6]

First off that selling fee is for finding you a sales lead.  They did that and had you set up with a buyer.  If that buyer had failed to pay you would have not been charged. 

Since the start of eBay there have been sellers that refused to go through with the sale.  It drives off buyers and eBay has tried lesser measures to stop it.   You lucky they only charged you.  Too much of that can get you banned from selling for life.  Ant they don't say how much it too much. Beware.

[isaiah53-57]

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@farmalljr wrote:

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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Problem is, in the real world, no one reads the legal speak of Privacy Notices and TOS's - They are designed the way they are purposely - If people read these things, they would likely not opt in to most TOS contracts - Some TOS's have been outed on National news with warnings, but it doesn't stop many, because seems people are more interested in watching Tik-Tok or YouTube videos rather than being concerned about their personal well being and willing to literally signing away their God given, assumptive rights for a FREE service - Yeah FREE for a FEE - there is always a cost.

Most people are going to assume at least the bare minimum of protection and rights, and rightly so, but we are talking about corporate America here, who's only concern is the next quarterly report -  What was once common and expected protections and rights have vanished in the legal speech of TOS's - and people are unwittingly paying the price for assuming any amount fairness in business...

You may know these things, because you have been here a long time and have a presence on these boards, but I would bet dollars to donuts, 8 out of 10 people selling here won't know about this money grab until it hits them upside the head...

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While I hear what you are saying....

THE PROBLEM IS, you as a user are AGREEING to a CONTRACT. It's your sole responsibility to understand the contract you are agreeing to.  None of the excuses matter, as to why someone might not read it or fully understand it. If contracts were not binding and did not have real meaning, law would fall to pieces and all contracts would be meaningless. It's the user's job/responsibility to understand the contract and to follow the terms. If it's too much or too hard for them to grasp, then they probably have no business entering the contract. But because they do, they ARE bound to the terms, regardless of how anyone "feels" about it. 

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I certainly can't contend with what is a given - We ALL know there is a TOS we are bound to, even those who choose not to read it - Its a given - Nothing new in what you wrote there...

My contention is that some offensive corporations(not mentioning any names) take advantage of KNOWING people dont read this carp - They add unfair rules and asinine regulations contrary to common sense, they reduce or remove protections and rights that are generally assumed and expected by level heads, they sell your personal information, they take away services and tools that were once there with no notice other than the TOS that hardly anyone reads... And the saddest thing of all, much of it is by design to trap and snare unaware users into paying for things no reasonable person would think is justified.

We were the victim of a similar situation here at ebay - It did not have to do with a TOS issue - we have always been vigilant with contracts and TOS's. One day the site simply decided to make BOLD LISTINGS the default listing - You actually had to uncheck the obscure box if you didnt want it - If I recollect properly they did this for several days to a week or maybe more until the uproar had them roll it back - At .50 cents a whack back then, how much undeserved revenue do you think the company hauled in on that despicable plan??

[golfingaddict]

This is not a money grab by eBay.   It is a deterrent to sellers that use this as a form of fee avoidance. (reserve auctions)

Before eBay started charging sellers when they cancelled an auction, it was common for some sellers to cancel an auction if it was not getting the bids/attention that they wanted.  Since Reserve auctions were expensive, they just counted on cancelling if they did not get the bids they wanted.  

For a long time, eBay also allowed sellers to cancel listings in the last minute of the auction.  So buyers thought they were winning an auction only to have the seller cancel bids and pull the listing at the last minute.

This was really disappointed and frustrating to buyers and I would guess it caused a lot of buyers to distrust eBay.

There were lots of rules like this implemented over the years and most of the rules (and that loss of fees the OP is talking about) were really about keeping buyers  happy and reining in rouge sellers that used cancelling listings at the last minute as a way to avoid paying for a reserve listing or selling an item too cheaply.

[itsjustasprain]

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:
Call it what you will, but if you dont think ebay is picking up undeserved revenue with respect to charging people for canceling auctions - people rightly concerned about fraudulent bidders

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Sellers can cancel any bids they are suspicious about BEFORE the auction ends. We are talking here about cancelling the auction - which is different.