Final Value Fees Charged on VAT taxes & telephone call response

[trader-bobs]

I very recently sold a Trumpet to a buyer in France. 

Selling price, $775.00

Import tax (VAT) charges, $178.56

Fee based on $953.56

x 10% $95.36

Top rated seller discount $9.54

International fee $953.56 x 1.65% = $15.73 

Final value fee $0.30

Total fees $101.85

When I called ebay to complain, I was not very nice, on the phone. This crap about adding taxes to the sale total, and then charging the sellers a fee on the total is a bunch of CRAP !

They called me on 8/13/23 at 21:37 EDT , call lasted 5 minutes. 

At 21:44 ebay called me back the phone rang 1/2 a ring, no time for me to answer, and they cut the call off. 

At 21:27, I received a non reply  email, from ebay, stating that your recent request for a call back was tried, and they could not make contact with me to check my account settings

BULL CRAP, they deleted my first conversation recording, and used the short call as the so-called attempt to contact me.  

SNEAKY way of not noting my complaint. 

How many of you sellers  complain about this taxation / final value fee crap,  ebay has going on?

trader-bobs

[mam98031]

Before getting more upset, first lets discover all the facts.

Did you check what the actual FVFs were that your account was charged?  Or did you calculate the ones that you posted above?   It doesn't look like it as FVF on musical instruments is 6.35%, unless something change since the last time I looked at the fees, which is certainly possible.

Are you sure this listing was eligible for the TRS FVF discount?

Are you in EIS?  This is very important.

If you are in EIS, your buyer pays you the US shipping rate from your place to the Ebay processing hub.

Sorry about all the questions.  I do want to help you.  I just need a little more information to do that.  

[the-hook-and-the-loop]

Your feedback score of 5,199 means you are not new to selling on eBay so how the fees are calculated should not be news and should be incorporated into your selling price.

What is important, is that you don't contact eBay through phone or chat. Those are worthless, sourced third parties to filter the volume of calls eBay receives daily. You need to contact eBay on Facebook and be patient with the process.

[slippinjimmy]

Yes FVF's are charged on VAT just as they are on US Sales Tax, yes it's true VAT is usually double or more what US Sales Tax is so it's quite a fee bite.

This has been how fees have been calculated for about 3 years. You don't have to like it but there is nothing you can do about it.

As @mam98031 mentions, the FVF on VAT does not apply if you use Ebay International Shipping (EIS) instead of shipping direct, also the 1.65% International fee is waived when using EIS.

I ship direct Internationally (not USPS) but I have room for a healthy handling Charge included in my shipping rates that usually covers the additional eBay fees (and more).

[cardxcraft]

I've sold a healthy amount of items through EIS and I've never been charged a fvf on VAT.  The fvf via EIS are for the item cost and domestic shipping.  

Below is a screen shot of a recent EIS sale: $51 (cost of item) + $5(domestic shipping)

●fvf charged on $56

 

[cardxcraft]

Sorry, I didn't read the end of your post before I commented about fvf on EIS.  

[mam98031]

This isn't a transaction the OP is talking about.  Was what you showed from a different thread?

We don't know if the OP is in EIS, they have not answered any questions yet.

[slippinjimmy]

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@mam98031 wrote:

We don't know if the OP is in EIS, they have not answered any questions yet.

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Yes we know, I looked at the listing, it offered USPS International Priority direct

[dbfolks166mt]

@mam98031 wrote:

We don't know if the OP is in EIS, they have not answered any questions yet.

Yes we know, I looked at the listing, it offered USPS International Priority direct

     This is a bit of an odd one. I too looked at the listing and something is not adding up. If it is the following item the buyer does not offer shipping to France so buyer must have contacted seller and worked out the shipping. OP did not provide, other than the typed out breakdown of the fees. The FVF on musical instruments is only 6.35%. The total cost the OP used for the calculation was $953.56 which was comprised of the selling price and the VAT but no shipping so not sure what OP and buyer worked out  with regards to shipping, assuming it was free although it is calculated for domestic buyers. 

     I won't even attempt to nail down the VAT tax in any foreign country I can't even sort out the 10,000+ individual sales tax rates in the US. Whether the item was subject to VAT and at what percent but the VAT amount the OP posted in their calculations of $178.56 would be about a 23% VAT rate. 

     The international fee has always been a PITA and something eBay should have eliminated a long time ago. They finally did so under the EIS program but it remains in place for non EIS sales. 

     I am not happy with the FVF's on sales tax but I know it is in eBay's policy and I factor it in when setting my prices so buyer is paying those costs. As others stated eBay does not apply the FVF to VAT when the item ships through the EIS program. 

     Something not adding up about OP's numbers but I do not ship internationally outside of the EIS program so I am not up to speed on how eBay calculates and applies fees, other than the international fee,  to those transactions. 

[lacemaker3]

This was a complicated situation, and there have been several posts on this thread with incorrect information or assumptions.  I have tried to sort it out, and figure out the fees correctly, at least based on the available information from the OP and Terapeak.

1. The listing offered international shipping to Canada (only), by USPS Priority Mail International, not EIS. So the exemption on including VAT when calculating the FVF fees does not apply.
2. Terapeak reports that the buyer paid $117.81 for shipping.
3. The VAT rate in France is 20%. The OP's reported amount for the VAT the buyer was charged is exactly correct, based on that rate, because VAT is charged on the purchase price plus the shipping.
4. The listing offered a free domestic shipping option (local pickup only) so the higher cost of the international shipping was not included in the FVF calculation.
5. OP reported the percentage rate (10%) for the FVF incorrectly. Guitars and basses (only) are eligible for 6.35% FVF; all other musical instruments are charged the basic rate of 13.25% FVF (for non-store owners). OP doesn't have a store.
6. The OP's feedback page shows that they are a top rated seller.
7. The listing does not accept returns.

Note; I am not positive that this listing would have qualified for a TRS+ discount. It doesn't show the badge, and it appears that in the Musical Instruments and Gear category, the seller would have had to accept returns (buyers pay the return shipping) in order to qualify for TRS+. I think this is the only part of the fees that may not be clear at this point.

However, I have included the TRS+ discount, because OP reported that it was received.

Paid by Buyer:		US $	Charged on:	Comments:
Purchase price		$  775.00
Shipping		$    117.81		According to Terapeak
Subtotal		$    892.81
Sales tax/VAT	20.0%	$    178.56	Subtotal	France VAT rate
Total payment		$ 1,071.37
- shipping cost		$  953.56		For FVF & Int. fee calculation
Paid by seller:				FVF = Final Value Fee
FVF Variable	13.25%	$    126.35	Total payment - shipping cost	Seller offered free domestic
International Fee	1.65%	$      15.73	Total payment - shipping cost	shipping option (pickup)
FVF fixed	$  0.30	$        0.30		Per order
TRS Discount	-10.0%	$    (12.63)	FVF Variable
Total fees		$    129.75

[mam98031]

I brought much of that up in an earlier post.  The OP doesn't seem to want to participate in the thread, so it is unlikely we will ever know what is really going on.  I agree it doesn't add up.

As to the 1.65% FVF on international sales.  This is something sellers have paid since we went to electronic payments with PayPal.  But when we used PP, many sellers just didn't realize they were paying the fee, but they were.  Ebay is just doing the same thing.  Ebay could not have stopped the fee while our money was processed through PP.

Since Ebay is more transparent with the fees being charged is why more sellers became aware of it.

One of the perks of using EIS is that sellers do not pay this fee anymore.  There are other perks so, but specifically about this fee, it goes away.

[mam98031]

When Ebay calculates the FVF on shipping for an international shipment it considers what the shipping rate was for a Domestic shipment.  The FVF is charged on the rate the seller charges for Domestic shipping NOT what the international rate is.  And if the seller has Free Shipping for their Domestic shipping, there is not FVF on the shipping amount for an international shipment.  This has been the rule for many years.

In EIS, it is easily seen because the seller is only charged a FVF for the Domestic leg of the shipment.

If the seller is in EIS they also do not pay a FVF on VAT.  

[janet9988]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

@mam98031 wrote:

We don't know if the OP is in EIS, they have not answered any questions yet.

Yes we know, I looked at the listing, it offered USPS International Priority direct

     This is a bit of an odd one. I too looked at the listing and something is not adding up. If it is the following item the buyer does not offer shipping to France so buyer must have contacted seller and worked out the shipping. OP did not provide, other than the typed out breakdown of the fees. The FVF on musical instruments is only 6.35%. The total cost the OP used for the calculation was $953.56 which was comprised of the selling price and the VAT but no shipping so not sure what OP and buyer worked out  with regards to shipping, assuming it was free although it is calculated for domestic buyers. 

     I won't even attempt to nail down the VAT tax in any foreign country I can't even sort out the 10,000+ individual sales tax rates in the US. Whether the item was subject to VAT and at what percent but the VAT amount the OP posted in their calculations of $178.56 would be about a 23% VAT rate. 

     The international fee has always been a PITA and something eBay should have eliminated a long time ago. They finally did so under the EIS program but it remains in place for non EIS sales. 

     I am not happy with the FVF's on sales tax but I know it is in eBay's policy and I factor it in when setting my prices so buyer is paying those costs. As others stated eBay does not apply the FVF to VAT when the item ships through the EIS program. 

     Something not adding up about OP's numbers but I do not ship internationally outside of the EIS program so I am not up to speed on how eBay calculates and applies fees, other than the international fee,  to those transactions. 

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The OP sold a TRUMPET... NOT a guitar or base. 😊

[lacemaker3]

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@mam98031 wrote:

When Ebay calculates the FVF on shipping for an international shipment it considers what the shipping rate was for a Domestic shipment.  The FVF is charged on the rate the seller charges for Domestic shipping NOT what the international rate is.  And if the seller has Free Shipping for their Domestic shipping, there is not FVF on the shipping amount for an international shipment.  This has been the rule for many years.

In EIS, it is easily seen because the seller is only charged a FVF for the Domestic leg of the shipment.

If the seller is in EIS they also do not pay a FVF on VAT.  

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Yes, I know. That's what I said.

[trader-bobs]

EIS does not provide enough shipping insurance coverage for the price range of instruments I sell. All smoke and mirrors. 

When I first joined EIS, I calculated a guitar sale to Germany, off EIS, at $35.00 and change. I called ebay to verify the charge I had found, they had a GREAT TAP DANCE session for me, to get themselves out of that !

FVF is actual, I have never had a 6.35%

Thanks, trader-bobs