09-10-2019 09:53 AM
For all of you out there that don't understand why Ebay charges a Final Value Fee it is this, plain and simple. It was a way to boost their profits without providing anything for the extra revenue. It took me all of 5 seconds to figure this out and I will explain why. I have read posts about this and seen the "levelling the playing field" argument and it is wrong. Ebay could have solved this problem ethically without charging a FVF on shipping. All they had to do was charge a FVF on manually added shipping and not on calculated shipping. That punishes those abusing the system and rewards those that are being fair and honest. Like I said, it took me literally no time at all to see the ethical solution and I'm no genius. Shame on you Ebay.
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09-10-2019 10:44 AM
09-10-2019 10:47 AM
09-10-2019 10:54 AM
In my case, I have gone to "free shipping" on most of my listings to avoid customer concerns and avoid most problems. On individual listings, my shipping costs can easily amount to 30% of the total cost of an item. Most of my listings can be shipped 1st Class package rate for average $4-$6 so the FVF on shipping is not too bad to absorb and build into the listing. By using Flat Rate Priority on multiple purchases, I can usually provide discounts or rebates to my customers at minimum cost to myself.
For sellers that have items where shipping is a major percentage of the total cost of a sale charging FVF's on shipping is obscene! It increases the cost of any item and certainly slows sales. I believe that if eBay were to stop this unethical practice it would immediately lead to increased sales overall and more satisfied customers. There have always been and will always be sellers that game the system for some perceived advantage, but, punitive measures by eBay for all sellers won't fix the problem and only costs our customers additional money and results in slower sales.
I hate to think about it as a money grab, but it is becoming more clear by the day that eBay is a desperate company willing to sell non-existent products for higher profits.
09-10-2019 11:11 AM - edited 09-10-2019 11:15 AM
@jbwoodco wrote:
I agree with everything you said until the Accounting error. This is no error.
Well, it is, in the sense that they're charging a seller fee on a seller expense. Given the quality of their coding, I don't think they honestly realized their screwup at the time (back when they announced that Final Value Fees would be extended to Shipping charges as well as the purchase price). It's fair for them to address the problem of sellers trying to cheat the system with a low price and high Shipping charge, but there's a direct expense for postage included that the seller does not get to keep as income from the sale. The postage can be deducted without any detrimental effect on keeping abusive seller pricing in line.
It's a process that's easily misunderstood, as far as what's fair and what isn't. It also doesn't help when people conflate "shipping" (what the seller is charging the buyer) with "postage" (what the seller is paying the carrier). The former is rightfully included in the Final Value Fee; the latter should not be (but is anyway). It is the only seller expense for which eBay is charging the seller a percentage. This discrepancy is more obvious for heavier or otherwise more expensive shipments than for lighter or cheaper ones.
For example, let's say that a $100 item requires $5 in postage. The buyer pays $105, but the seller only takes in $100, since the USPS gets $5. He still has to pay FVFs on $105 regardless.
Now look at another $100 item that needs $20 in postage. The buyer pays $120, but again the seller only takes in $100, since the USPS gets $20. He still has to pay FVFs on $120.
If the postage was deducted from both sales above before FVFs were calculated, then both sellers would pay the correct fee, based on the $100 that they actually took in.
This holds true for "Free Shipping" sales as well:
Again, let's say that a $100 item requires $5 in postage. The buyer pays $100 (Free Shipping), but the seller only takes in $95, because he has to eat $5 in postage. He is still charged FVFs on $100 regardless.
For another $100 item that needs $20 in postage, the buyer pays $100, but the seller only takes in $80 after eating $20 in postage. He still has to pay FVFs on $100.
If the postage was deducted from both sales above before FVFs were calculated, then again both sellers would pay the correct fee, on $95 and $80 respectively.
Finally, this still ensures that gouging sellers still pay their fair share. Suppose that an item sells for $10 with $100 in Shipping charges, even though it really only costs $5 in postage. The buyer pays $110, the $5 postage is deducted, and the seller is charged FVFs on $105, as it should be.
Postage is the only seller expense for which eBay imposes a fee, by not deducting the cost of postage even when it's purchased on-line and directly connected to the original transaction. If the postage paid was deducted from the buyer's payment before Final Value Fees were calculated, then the actual amount taken in by the seller would be recognized, and the playing field would then be leveled for sellers of all items. (I know this correction wouldn't account for sellers buying postage over the counter at full retail. They should look at it as another incentive to start printing their labels on-line instead.)
Now, having said all that, eBay has already stated in the past, "Tough, we know it's unfair, but it's not going to change." I suspect it's more likely due to no one wanting to take on the challenge of fixing what's really just a basic accounting error in code than anything else, but it is what it is, and it's not likely to change, so just factor it into your expenses when setting your price. Sorry.
09-10-2019 11:26 AM
Just a differing opinion. 1.) Any surcharges associated with a sale are ultimately borne by the customer except in very rare cases like mine where there is a seller dumb enough to try to absorb them as part of doing business. Even then, there is a tendency to try to recoup them at the customer's expense. 2.) Shipping charges (actual or close to) are not revenue or profit streams, they are an expense. Adding to them in any way only increases cost for customers and slows sales. 3.) Amazon practices have nothing to do with what eBay does. This is eBay, not Amazon or any other online site. eBay would do themselves a great service by separating themselves from the herd and following a different path to be the leader instead of a "me too" follower. 4.) I don't believe eBay has ever knowingly or willingly given up one red cent of profit for the greater good. If they have lowered revenue in any area it is only to deflect attention from more lucrative areas where they have made substantial increases.
This is not to argue with your views, only to state mine with the hopes that you can change my mind and I can return to where I really liked eBay.
09-10-2019 11:29 AM
09-10-2019 11:31 AM
How would ebay know the exact postage for each and every item unless everyone used ebay shipping? I know that I can't use it and I'm certain that there are many who either can't use it or prefer not to.
09-10-2019 11:49 AM
When I sold I sold books, most of which shipped media mail. I charged a flat rate because the shipping cost was the same whether it was going to my next door neighbor or cross country. There was no need for calculated shipping. Was I unethical?
09-10-2019 11:50 AM
@jbwoodco wrote:
This makes no sense as sellers always got the total including shipping, even before the FVF on shipping. PayPal gets paid 3% as the clearing house for the transaction just as any retailer gets charged by VISA, MC etc. Ebay has nothing to to with the processing of the payment.
When you pay the Pay Pal fee, it's just like Ebay, they are charging a fee based on the buyers payment, for item and shipping.
It doesn't matter if buyer pays you $100 for an item with free shipping, or $90 plus $10 shipping, you are still paying the fee on that $100.
With Pay Pal, the 3% fee includes the fee for the shipping charges also, you just don't know it because it's one fee taken out.
Ebay has nothing to do with collecting the payment, but they do provide a service.
09-10-2019 12:08 PM
@pjcdn2005 wrote:How would ebay know the exact postage for each and every item unless everyone used ebay shipping?
Right, using eBay/PayPal shipping lets eBay see the postage being paid, so there's really no reason why they couldn't write correct code to deduct that cost before calculating an accurate Final Value Fee. Obviously they cannot see postage purchased elsewhere and could not deduct that as a result, which could act as a bit of an incentive for those sellers to start buying their postage on-line via eBay.
09-10-2019 12:21 PM
Its just another fee. Instead of saying we are taking 30 percent of your sales. They break it down it little parts and spoon feed it to you so you don't have a stroke! Could they eliminate the fee on shipping of course they can! They know how much you paid for the label! You may say its 20 dollars to ship but when you buy the label they know. for those that insist on buying the label elsewhere well tough tooties then. What can I say. But its not about that at all. Oh ny the way did you notice if you pay them the promotion fee you will sell more items? What a concept! 9.9% Fee? What? Oh if you only want to sell 1 item a week that is.
09-10-2019 12:34 PM
09-10-2019 12:42 PM
09-10-2019 12:44 PM
09-10-2019 12:49 PM