Feedback Removal - Attempted Extortion and eBay Doesn't Care

[valynaz]

Hi all, 

This is going to be a bit of a long-winded rant, but I'm feeling very frustrated and I'm tired of how vulnerable my livelihood is as a seller and the fact that eBay does not care about its sellers, the real workhorses behind their platform. 

I just received my first negative review in my nine years on this platform as a result of attempted extortion. So here's what happens: 17 days ago a buyer sends me an offer to buy a laptop at $5 below asking price, I promptly accept and get the equipment out same-day. After the item is shipped, the buyer contacts me asking if I can "expedite the shipment" and provides his Zelle information to "cover the difference in cost", telling me that it's for an employee that needs it urgently. I decline and inform the buyer that the item is already shipped. He responds saying "Okay, thank you for trying" then proceeds to provide me his personal email address and says "please contact me here and I will explain to you the reason for providing my email". This is now my third red flag from this buyer, and I do not respond. 

17 days have passed, and the buyer reaches out once again: "This laptop only lasts 90 minutes when not on the charger, I'm not going to return it because my son needs it for school but will leave negative review unless you make this right for me" (Buyer originally said he was purchasing it for an employee?). The buyer also states that if I make this right for him, he will consider purchasing more computers from me in order to "equip his entire law firm"

Okay, first off- It is a used, six year old Macbook Pro running a turbo-boosted i9 processor and a dedicated AMD GPU, and the battery condition was reported as "normal" in MacOS and the cycle count on the battery was mentioned in the listing and DM'd to the buyer (along with the serial number) as a part of my shipping verification process. It's going to be a power-hungry machine, and I have no idea what sort of workload this buyer is putting it under while it's unplugged. I proceed by apologizing for whatever frustrations the buyer is facing, and explain that the specs of the system can be very demanding and that power-draw is going to depend on what sort of workload he's putting it through. I then decide to provide the buyer with some links of various forum posts of people discussing the battery life of this particular model and what they've done to extend its life, to which the buyer responds with "don't talk to me like that, I've been using Macbooks since they were invented! You knew this was an issue with this model of Macbook! I've been ripped off!"

At this point, I'm frustrated and struggling to maintain my customer service guise. I apologize for offending them, and simply re-state the information that was in the listing and explain that I was trying to help them through solutions that others have found online to extend their battery life, to which he says "So you're not going to do anything for me? Now I'm going to leave you a negative review"

And the feedback arrives instantly- Buyer has now changed their story saying "it doesn't even last an hour unplugged" and saying that I knew the computer was faulty but didn't mention that in the listing- Which is simply untrue. 

I instantly get on the phone with eBay support, something I often dread, and here's how the experience goes: 

First customer rep is very helpful, but ends up putting me on hold for over an hour until I eventually gave up (that hold music is still stuck in my head)

Second rep is even more helpful, I explain to her the situation and we go over the messages together- She agrees that the buyer was suspicious from the start, it was a clear attempt at extortion, and that she's going to have the feedback removed. We get off the phone, and before I can even have a moment to feel relieved, I get a call-back from eBay. It's the same rep, who explains to me that I need to actually request the feedback to be removed first, and then she walks me through the steps and gives me explicit instruction of what to type in the request form. I do exactly that, and she tells me verbatim "the feedback will be removed in a couple of hours" 

Fast-forward one hour, and I receive an email from eBay that appears to have an automated response, telling me that they sided in the favor of the buyer because "the item had an issue that wasn't mentioned in the listing". At this point, I'm exhausted but decide to hop on the phone with eBay support one last time. Long story short, I get more script-reads, the phone call gets escalated, and I'm ultimately told "the buyer is allowed to post this feedback because it's their opinion and cannot be removed", despite evidence that the complaint was factually incorrect and, once again, the result of attempted extortion. 

And here we are- I'm tired, and sick of this platform abusing its sellers. I think it's time to look at taking my business elsewhere.

Thanks for reading.

[mkaczorsee]

I can’t see the listing/description. 

I would try calling early in the morning. 

[gurlcat]

I don't know if it's too late for this feedback, but next time what you have to do is report the abusive buyer before you try the appeal.  Often they will not even consider an appeal if you haven't reported the buyer first.  And you should try it now, THEN contact them but via the social media private message route, not the overseas phone reps (they aren't going to help).

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/abusive-buyer-policy?id=4374&st=3&pos=1&que...

[inhawaii]

I would have to agree with ebay.

The buyer was unhappy with the condition and performance of the laptop. The feedback reflects that.

BTW "normal" is not adequate for describing the condition of sonething.

[valynaz]

Hi @inhawaii - 

"Normal" is how the battery is reported within the operating system under the "battery health" of the device, it's used to describe a battery that is functioning as-expected (power-draw, drain time, standby, etc.). If drain-time wasn't as-expected, it would report something like "service recommended". I also included the cycle count of the device in the listing and in a message to the buyer, which is a good indicator of the battery's condition. The buyer did not indicate how he was using the device, and I really have no control over how they do so - It was a system with a dedicated graphics card and an overclocked CPU, so by-design it's very power-hungry and based on what the user explained, it was performing as-expected for that model/spec. If the user was doing something like gaming, running chrome with 60 tabs open while multi-tasking, etc, that's going to increase the power-draw, especially because it's now a six year old system so running modern applications will increase the strain/demand of the system - This is something I have no control over. The laptop was as-described 

It unfortunately seems like a case of either A) the buyer not understanding what they purchased or B) the buyer just finding any excuse to try to get a money back from me without returning the device (with the negative feedback as leverage). I'm inclined to believe it was option B in this case, as the buyer was steadfast in not listening to any of my recommendations or offers to help, changed their complaint, and sent some concerning messages prior that lead me to believe his intent was to always find a way to scam me. 

Regardless of my stance, I appreciate your response and the alternative perspective. 

[valynaz]

I reported the buyer on multiple occasions - When he tried to get my Zelle info, when he provided his personal email and asked to do business outside of ebay, and again once he attempted to extort me. It really seems like ebay just doesn't care 😕 

That's a really good tip about social media contact, I'm going to try that in the morning and see if I have any luck with that route, as I'm pretty tired of hearing the script-reads over the phone

[gurlcat]

Here's the link if you need it.  https://www.facebook.com/ebay 
Skip the public news feed and just send a private message.  Make it about 1/100th as long as this^ post, LOL.  Seriously, the absolute most important things to include are
your username,
the item number,
the fact that you did report the buyer
This quote by the buyer, which is possibly the most blatant feedback extortion I've ever seen: "This laptop only lasts 90 minutes when not on the charger, I'm not going to return it because my son needs it for school but will leave negative review unless you make this right for me" 

If you want to simply mention that he tried to get you to communicate off the platform, only mention it without long details -the social media reps (unlike the phone ones) have more access and power, so they'll be able to read the whole email conversation if they want to (but I really think that^ one quote is more than enough). 

I'll be shocked if they won't remove the feedback.

[aproudparent2010]

I wasn't sure which particular one it is either as this person sells lots of used computers. I will say they use a stock photo of a new computer on their used computers.

They also have this in their lsiting:

 Please feel free to DM me if you'd like to see the specific unit you will receive upon purchase.

[lacemaker3]

@valynaz,

A couple of questions about this transaction:

1. Did the buyer open a return request, or just send you messages?
    
2. Did you ever tell the buyer they could return the item for a full refund?

[valynaz]

No return request was opened, and the buyer specifically stated that he doesn't want to return it/will not return it

[valynaz]

This is excellent, thank you so much. Yeah, I was just frustrated and in rant mode, wanted to get all these stupid details out there just as a form of venting 😅

[gurlcat]

Sorry to butt into your question but from the post it seems pretty clear the buyer did not open an actual return ....they knew they could ..... but had no intention to, just wanted a partial refund for (alleged) poor battery life. 

I can't imagine what intent they had for trying to get the OP to take the conversation off eBay messaging. 

As far as I know, violating the Abusive Buyer rule regarding asking for a partial refund without returning the item does not have the stipulation that the seller must explicitly tell the buyer they can return for a full refund.  In fact, the reporting feature doesn't even mention feedback (like used to extort the partial refund).  Simply asking for it alone is a violation. 

Now this buyer didn't seem to use the words "partial refund" - they said "make it right" and maybe a foreign eBay employee might not know what that phrase means in America, but I bet an American social media eBay employee would.  And the threat of a "negative review" was clear as day. 

[valynaz]

Yeah, this is my system as I deal with a lot of computers of similar condition with matching spec. If there's nothing remarkable about the computer/no damage, I generally just use the stock photos and group them all into the same listing. Models with significant or noticeable scratches/damage of any kind, or any sort of issues found during testing, all get separate listings with the issues listed out and photos of the actual unit provided in the listing. I also send sellers pictures of their computer prior to shipment, along with serial numbers, battery info, and anti-tamper sticker codes.

I also want to make sure I'm fair, and I know some buyers feel more comfortable if they can see the exact computer they'll receive, which is why I have that verbiage in there. If a buyer reaches out interested in a system that I have ten of, I'll pull one out of that batch, take as many pictures as they like, answer any further questions, and then put that system aside for them for 72 hours while they think it over.

All things considered, this has worked out very well for me, as this event is my first negative feedback and I've only had 2 returns out of the 500 computers I've sold on eBay so far. I'm sure there's always a better way of doing things, however.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

I do not buy from sellers who run private listings.

I suspect them of wrongdoing more often than sellers with the negative FB you received.

Were I selling used computers on Ebay, I would expect to have the experience you just had on a regular basis.

And I would never have accepted an offer on any computer - it is a warning sign of things to come.

This is a high risk business and any deviation from

Seller lists item

Buyer buys item

and

Seller ships item

is a warning of bad things to come.

[gurlcat]

The issue of whether to use stock photos is almost moot in this case, because the buyer didn't claim dents, scratches, dead pixels, etc; he claimed poor battery life. 

That said, I do agree that it's always better to use real photos of the actual unit a buyer will receive, if it's a used one.  That doesn't mean you can't also include stock photos, but the main (primary) one should be a real photograph you took.  And don't eliminate the background because that will just make it look like a stock image.  The reason you want to avoid that isn't just about protecting yourself against false claims, but getting the item SOLD.  When buyers are scrolling down pages of used electronics, they see an ocean of stock images and some will just scroll right past those.  How do they know you really even HAVE the unit in your possession, and you're not just a scammer grabbing images from google to make quick money and send a box of rocks?  How do they know the unit doesn't have dents, scratches, or dead pixels?

You can even use photographs to show the unit's own screen reports about its' performance.  Like that "normal" battery function you mentioned .... that's a GREAT image to include!  A couple months ago I sold my old iPhone -very old, but in flawless cosmetic condition because I'd kept it in an Otterbox Defender the whole time, and it still had a maximum battery charge of 87% the original capacity, so I included that screenshot in my listing.  Sold it very fast for higher $ amount than most historic Sold's of that model, and no complaints from the buyer!