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False VeRO Claims

Why does eBay continue to allow large companies to file false VeRO Claims against sellers? Why do they not offer us any protection against these claims? One of my listings was taken down by a Korean company using an AI for "misrepresentation of their warranty." However, this company does not own the item, but shares a similar name to the actual manufacturer. Also, nowhere in my advertisement did I say a warranty was even available!

I was told the claim was filed automatically, but reviewed and approved manually by an eBay agent, who apparently saw something that does not exist. The appeal did nothing. VeRO customer support did nothing. The claimant refuses to answer my emails. So now I'm stuck with a permanent defect on my account, unable to sell an item I have hundreds of, and know I am at risk of my 20+ year old eBay account being taken down by whoever feels like it. Oh, and since the claim was filed through eBay's VeRO program, I have no rights granted to me in the DMCA. If it was not for eBay's VeRO system protecting the claimant, I would be able to file a Counter Notice and have my advertisement restored and defect removed immediately. Instead, I have to pray the company abusing the system suddenly decides to change their mind, or get a lawyer involved.

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False VeRO Claims

I agree.  There should be a "costly" recourse for a false VeRO claim.
Something that would slow down the ambulance chaser lawyers.

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False VeRO Claims

VERO Stikes Again! Isn't it amazing. Do You ever really own anything you purchase?  the Vero Laws have made selling secondhand products difficult. I understand that Someone that owns the Rights to Photos or items doesn't want them hi-jacked and produced for sale without Licensing but once they are made and, in the marketplace, then it's a grey area. Intellectual Property Rights well just all it "IPR' here.

 

Here is One of probably Fifty Instances of VERO I can tell you that happened to us over the years.

 

  I used to be in the Music Business and Collected Shirts from various Concerts and Buttons over the years. You Should get some basic knowledge of the VERO laws if You're going to be selling here or any online Platform, We get eBay Listing taken down Several Times a Year with follow up Messages saying you can't sell them Contact the Owner of the "IPR" per VERO Policy. And it is always the same thing we purchased it legitimately why can't we sell it when we are tired of it. We didn't rent it with a promise never to sell or get rid of its ours. Why in the World would a Owner of IPR ever sell them in the first place to someone and not allow them to ever get rid of it? unfortunately the VERO policies on here makes that all possible. 

 

  eBay doesn't have the time or staff to verify all the complaints they get from Supposed Intellectual Property Right owners, so their Solution is just to take the items You Own down, and let you Resolve it. so, they don't have to deal with it.

 

  One particular case I will site was some Photo buttons of Eddie Van Halen, had gotten them during the 70's Cal Jam Concerts. I'm getting old and gave everything I own to self-fund a Christian Childrens Ministry we run. So decided better to try and get some money for the kids than thrown them away. Well, we listed over 20 buttons. after a week or so eBay started taking them off telling us to contact the Vero owner.

 

Here is where it gets good. Turns out I knew that owner. from years back when I was in that business. eBay then takes the rest off at one time. Now they are claiming I had 20 instances and suspends us from selling for 30 days because of multiple violations (really only one time listing the lot)  SO, I call the owner and go over old-time memories, and He tells me that "Everyday he  wakes up and goes through all eBay listings and anything  from that time" he messages eBay Claiming the Intellectual property (Photos) belong to him (Even though we purchased them from a Vendor at the Concert) He had obviously licensed to them to sell to this large Promotional items Company in Canada. He even called and Messaged eBay to not suspend me as he knew me. Some Good that did.

 

We decided to take the time and verify his Claim and Contact the Trademark Office in Washington, Sure enough he had TWO (2) Photos of Van Halen copyrighted Not the hundreds of thousands that are out there. When I called eBay and told them this, they said they don't have the time to verify, and it was a big hassle for them and the legal cost wasn't worth the time to verifying every item that owners Claim belong to them. All they require is that the owners register that they have "IPR" Rights Registered in Washington. Then Pretty much anything they claim is theirs is taken down

 

This is so Wrong but on the other side if I owned eBay, I'm sure I would figure out some way to negate the liability also. since the owners definitely are going to sue eBay with their Deep Pockets along with the listing Vendor. The Answer is in my humble opinion it would be, if someone was Manufacturing and stealing their "IPR" and making a profit off of it listing new Stolen "IPR" on eBay Make the owners Document each item they are claiming so that they would be Liable for hurting the Seller. then let them take it off.  but selling One Off of an item or a Lot that you legally acquired to get rid of Should be allowed.

 

It's Definitely Not Right since the Seller obviously put out his money to purchase it. This is the Dark side of The Business where they don't want anyone to compete with them. So they go after eBay which basically is in the Middle of it to enforce their wishes. the Property Rights owners need to find a way to Permanently hallmark and transfer ownership of the Widget or Do Not sell them to the Public in the first Place. 

 

Sorry for the Long-winded Rant generally I stay off these boards because every time I put my two cents in Somehow my sells Immediately Drop for months after Guess the algorithm doesn't like Criticism of eBay but in this case, I'm trying to come to their defense of a bigger issue that needs to be resolved in the Courts.

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False VeRO Claims

I was able to finally get the defect off my account, and without response from the original company that filed the claim. I am not sure if it was my continued chats with eBay's VeRO customer support, the fact the company never replied over two business weeks, or the Counter Notice I filed pursuant to Section512(g)(2) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, but my appeal was successful, the defect was removed, and my listing was put back up.

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False VeRO Claims


@peacerainbeausales wrote:

I was able to finally get the defect off my account, and without response from the original company that filed the claim. I am not sure if it was my continued chats with eBay's VeRO customer support, the fact the company never replied over two business weeks, or the Counter Notice I filed pursuant to Section512(g)(2) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, but my appeal was successful, the defect was removed, and my listing was put back up.


What was the disputed item?

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False VeRO Claims

     The VERO program along with eBay's constantly growing list of prohibited and restricted items were/are one of the reasons that drove me to diversify across multiple platforms and venues quite some time ago. While I understand eBay wanting to curtail the counterfeiting problem the quality control they exercise over that program is poor and I was simply unwilling to waste my time and effort to try and correct the errors in unjustly removed listings. 

     There are a LOT of other alternative venues that will accept my listings with far less controls and restrictions on the items I list or sell. I purchase little on eBay these days simply because I can almost always find the item cheaper elsewhere or I can obtain it a lot faster through other marketplaces. When I am looking for an item there are certain things I will simply not search eBay for because of their policies and the slim chance of finding what I am looking for.  

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False VeRO Claims

It was this switch here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235548091304

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False VeRO Claims

eBay followed up with me this morning. The Counter Notice did nothing because the claim was over a misrepresentation of warranty through VeRO, and not a DMCA Claim. I guess eBay decided to finally examine the case themselves since I kept trying to escalate the issue and never heard back from the claimant.

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False VeRO Claims


@redlinear wrote:

I agree.  There should be a "costly" recourse for a false VeRO claim.
Something that would slow down the ambulance chaser lawyers.


The VERO system protects eBay from the costly recourse of liability for valid claims of infringement under the DMCA.

 

eBay is not going voluntarily give up it's immunity by trying to correctly interpret intellectual property rights and determine which claims are valid or not. Congress pretty clearly decided that was a job for the courts.

 

It is unfortunate that eBay has chosen to extend the DMCA to other IP property, but the basic principle is the same.

 

 

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False VeRO Claims

I received another false VeRO claim a few days ago, this time  because I used the name of the item that is literally inscribed on it in the title and description, which violates the owner's IP Rights. Both claims were made by companies using "AI." Will eBay protect us sellers from these bots?

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