Ebay literally told me that it doesn't matter if the buyer pees on my item and breaks it!!

[grandmas_way]

I'll start by saying I'm a top rated seller with a 5 star item as described rating. I've been using Ebay for about 18 years and now I'm done as of today. I just deleted all of my auctions and my store.

If you list ANY return policy in your auction and it is a High Value Item by Ebay standards you need to know that Ebay will literally tell you that any buyer and seller communication is irrelevant and you must accept a return that was initiated as "Not as described" regardless of the return situation and that the Return Item Condition Policy will no longer apply if the buyer escalates the dispute. Ebay told me that even if the buyer admits in a message that they dropped the item or peed on it that I must take it back if the buyer clicked not as described within the return period and escalates the case. The buyer spent 5 days misusing my golf simulator with incompatible hardware that even my children could understand was not compatible. Ebay literally refused to take any evidence into account. They actually told me they only will review information that Ebay themselves requested and since they didn't request anything, they won't even review the buyers own messages of improper usage the subitted through the Ebay messaging system.

I sold a Skytrak golf launch monitor on Ebay, $2,000 item, it tracks the flight of real golf balls hit with a real club. I put returns are accepted only if it arrives non-functional. The unit sits about 8-10" from where you place the ball and forward from it, so you can understand why I wouldn't want returns after use. The buyer received the item and thanked me for sending it so quickly, so I know it arrived ok. After 5 days I get a random request for return saying the product wouldn't sync with their Ipad and there was a delay after hitting the ball before it showed on the screen.

When I asked which Ipad they were using they replied an Iphone 6s, which is clearly not an Ipad and listed as non compatible with the Skytrak on the manufacturers site. Then when the buyer was told the Iphone was not compatible, they changed their answer to an "Ipad 2016", well there is no model called an Ipad 2016 and none of the models made in 2016 are compatible with the Skytrak. After 5 days of misuse with incompatible hardware I'm now responsible for $35 return shipping and I have to accept the item and return the buyers funds regardless of the item condition. I made no claims of compatibility in my auction other than mentioning that it was previously used with an IPad Air 2 which is on the list of approved devices. BTW, the Skytrak processes nothing, it just takes pictures. The hardware attached to it processes everything and is responsible for the delay and processing the ball flight data into an image.

After the buyer clearly admitting they used incompatible hardware with my hardware and I provided clear proof to Ebay that the buyer voided the manufacturers warranty, I don't see why I'm forced to accept a return when the item also met everything as described. The buyer also admitted to buyers remorse when they tried to blame me for selling something they found "difficult to use" Ebays Money Back Guarantee policy specifically says buyers remorse isnt covered. Which one is it I asked the buyer.... are you returning it because it's difficult for you personally to use or because it's not syncing and broken...no answer. I didn't know I needed to offer an IQ test in my auctions and returns would be forced due to lack of intellect. Not my fault if you don't research something before you buy it for compatibility. A buyer shouldn't be able to buy a PS4 System and then return it for not meeting item as described when their Xbox games don't play properly in it. But Ebay told me that indeed I would be responsible for that return and have to pay return cost as well. Ebay told me that it's just the risk of me doing business with them that I have to accept a return in any condition the buyer returns it and they'll still take the refund out of my account.

At the end of the day, if you want your auction to count towards your Top rated seller or Powerseller rating, then you are required to list a return policy. So just know that you'll then have to accept the return for any reason, even misuse or someone peeing on it. I'm not even asking them to take my word for it on the misuse, the buyers clearly stated it on their own. The sellers you would think Ebay counted on the most the ones with the least protection and they least care about apparently. I have far more proof of the buyers wrong doing and about 10 screenshots worth of evidence. I even have proof from the manufacturer that they tested the item just prior to the buyer receiving it. But Ebay won't even read it, or anything else. I literally can't find one term of condition the buyer met to qualify for this return or that I did incorrectly (other than offering a return at all). I'm scared to death that the real reason this is coming back is because they blasted the until with a ball and damaged something inside(it uses real balls and clubs).

[usmc*usnmom]

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@graciejoy wrote:

If someone sends you something that they damaged or switched or an empty box, simply file a report with the United States Postal Inspector and get a case number. Call the police department and get a Case number.

Ebay WILL take notice. They also DO pay attention to videos made with a third party such as a postal employee filming you at the post office opening it. 

You have to be diligent, but Ebay will take notice.

Having said that, I am a firm believer in accepting returns and processing refunds. Never argue with people wanting to return something. It is a waste of time because Ebay makes you accept returns. Wait until you get the item back and then you can process the refund if the item is fine. If the item is not yours or if you have received an empty box, then you can take the steps mentioned above. I know there are people on here that constantly say that if you get an empty box or a damaged item, or a switched item it is just a cost of doing business and you have to give in. You do not in either a brick and mortar store or on Ebay. 

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Shrinkage  IS a cost of doing business, which is why sellers need to CYA and account for loss in their business plans. That still doesn't mean you roll over. Sellers have to watch out for themselves because NO ONLINE SELLING VENUE will have your back. None of them.

You have to account for loss, AND file police, sheriff, mail fraud/theft and iC3 reports, and right now too many sellers DON'T do that because they think it won't make a difference. One or two reports about a buyer may get set aside, but three, four....or more reports about a single person from different sellers WILL get noticed by someone, and action will be taken. It may not get a seller's money back (which is why sellers need a loss fund) but it will stop one buyer from scamming another seller.  And you lather, rinse and repeat as necessary.

[sockmonkeydave]

It's one thing to take an item back to wall mart, (even though they only give store credit)

But on the internet there is no employee to say hey...... this is a brick.

But as others have said, file all the proper reports, then cross your fingers and call ebay.

[graciejoy]

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@usmc*usnmom wrote:

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@graciejoy wrote:

If someone sends you something that they damaged or switched or an empty box, simply file a report with the United States Postal Inspector and get a case number. Call the police department and get a Case number.

Ebay WILL take notice. They also DO pay attention to videos made with a third party such as a postal employee filming you at the post office opening it. 

You have to be diligent, but Ebay will take notice.

Having said that, I am a firm believer in accepting returns and processing refunds. Never argue with people wanting to return something. It is a waste of time because Ebay makes you accept returns. Wait until you get the item back and then you can process the refund if the item is fine. If the item is not yours or if you have received an empty box, then you can take the steps mentioned above. I know there are people on here that constantly say that if you get an empty box or a damaged item, or a switched item it is just a cost of doing business and you have to give in. You do not in either a brick and mortar store or on Ebay. 

---

Shrinkage  IS a cost of doing business, which is why sellers need to CYA and account for loss in their business plans. That still doesn't mean you roll over. Sellers have to watch out for themselves because NO ONLINE SELLING VENUE will have your back. None of them.

You have to account for loss, AND file police, sheriff, mail fraud/theft and iC3 reports, and right now too many sellers DON'T do that because they think it won't make a difference. One or two reports about a buyer may get set aside, but three, four....or more reports about a single person from different sellers WILL get noticed by someone, and action will be taken. It may not get a seller's money back (which is why sellers need a loss fund) but it will stop one buyer from scamming another seller.  And you lather, rinse and repeat as necessary.

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                        I think we are talking about different things here. I am a firm believer in accepting returns. I have always accepted returns. I did not need Ebay to make me accept returns because I always accepted them from day one. I do not care why anybody wants to send something back, they are more than welcome to return it if they do not like it. 

                 Many people make the mistake of arguing over returns, which is a waste of time. My comments here were directed to someone that was claiming that brick and mortar stores accepted returns no matter what, and even accepted scams. That is not true. I am happy to accept a return, but if you scam me, I take action. People always try claim this stuff about everyone taking returns and it is not true. These are the same people that say if you file with your credit card, they will automatically refund your money. I have worked chargebacks for years. I have never lost a case with a credit card company on a chargeback. There are people on here that act like every retailer rolls over and plays dead for scam artists like Ebay does. That is not true. Ebay is the only one that I have ever seen do that. That is because it is not their inventory. Trust me if it was Ebay's inventory, they would not be so quick to give it away.

[usmc*usnmom]

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@graciejoy wrote:

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@usmc*usnmom wrote:

---

@graciejoy wrote:

If someone sends you something that they damaged or switched or an empty box, simply file a report with the United States Postal Inspector and get a case number. Call the police department and get a Case number.

Ebay WILL take notice. They also DO pay attention to videos made with a third party such as a postal employee filming you at the post office opening it. 

You have to be diligent, but Ebay will take notice.

Having said that, I am a firm believer in accepting returns and processing refunds. Never argue with people wanting to return something. It is a waste of time because Ebay makes you accept returns. Wait until you get the item back and then you can process the refund if the item is fine. If the item is not yours or if you have received an empty box, then you can take the steps mentioned above. I know there are people on here that constantly say that if you get an empty box or a damaged item, or a switched item it is just a cost of doing business and you have to give in. You do not in either a brick and mortar store or on Ebay. 

---

Shrinkage  IS a cost of doing business, which is why sellers need to CYA and account for loss in their business plans. That still doesn't mean you roll over. Sellers have to watch out for themselves because NO ONLINE SELLING VENUE will have your back. None of them.

You have to account for loss, AND file police, sheriff, mail fraud/theft and iC3 reports, and right now too many sellers DON'T do that because they think it won't make a difference. One or two reports about a buyer may get set aside, but three, four....or more reports about a single person from different sellers WILL get noticed by someone, and action will be taken. It may not get a seller's money back (which is why sellers need a loss fund) but it will stop one buyer from scamming another seller.  And you lather, rinse and repeat as necessary.

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                        I think we are talking about different things here. I am a firm believer in accepting returns. I have always accepted returns. I did not need Ebay to make me accept returns because I always accepted them from day one. I do not care why anybody wants to send something back, they are more than welcome to return it if they do not like it. 

                 Many people make the mistake of arguing over returns, which is a waste of time. My comments here were directed to someone that was claiming that brick and mortar stores accepted returns no matter what, and even accepted scams. That is not true. I am happy to accept a return, but if you scam me, I take action. People always try claim this stuff about everyone taking returns and it is not true. These are the same people that say if you file with your credit card, they will automatically refund your money. I have worked chargebacks for years. I have never lost a case with a credit card company on a chargeback. There are people on here that act like every retailer rolls over and plays dead for scam artists like Ebay does. That is not true. Ebay is the only one that I have ever seen do that. That is because it is not their inventory. Trust me if it was Ebay's inventory, they would not be so quick to give it away.

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Gotcha!

I'm the same way with returns and always have been. I even pay return shipping.

Amazon does their 3P sellers the same way Ebay does, only they do ban excessive returners. They don't say the exact percentage, but rumor has it that if you return more than 10-15% of purchases, you get banned. Not just the member, the entire household/address/credit card. Until a person gets that permaban, they are just as free to return boxes of air as an Ebay refund scammer is.

Ebay really, really, really needs to clamp down on serial returners and refund scammers by using not just an ID block, but an address/credit card block as well.  Until they do a seller's only recourse is to fight via third party channels like the police, the Postal Inspectors and iC3.

[graciejoy]

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@usmc*usnmom wrote:

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Gotcha!

I'm the same way with returns and always have been. I even pay return shipping.

Amazon does their 3P sellers the same way Ebay does, only they do ban excessive returners. They don't say the exact percentage, but rumor has it that if you return more than 10-15% of purchases, you get banned. Not just the member, the entire household/address/credit card. Until a person gets that permaban, they are just as free to return boxes of air as an Ebay refund scammer is.

Ebay really, really, really needs to clamp down on serial returners and refund scammers by using not just an ID block, but an address/credit card block as well.  Until they do a seller's only recourse is to fight via third party channels like the police, the Postal Inspectors and iC3.

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               I think that is an extremely good idea on the part of Amazon. At the store that I worked at for years, we had customers that returned things at the very end of the return period and get something else and then the process would repeat itself. We simply banned them. They were just wearing jewelry and then got tired of it and were basically trading it in for something new. These people did that with every store in town and as and accountant, I can tell you that the accountants and bookkeepers of the businesses knew who these people were in town and we told each other and banned them. That is what retailers normally do. Ebay is the only place that I have seen that lets these people just run amuck. They do not let sellers give accurate feedback, so these same people do it over and over again.

[emerald40]

I shop EVERYDAY at brick and motor stores that do not give refunds, if you don't, your a a smuck paying WAY too much for your goods.

____________________________________________.

What did you call me?

I have done Christmas returns at several retail department stores - Some you would recognize the name like Macy's, JC Penney, and others that are local like Ann & Hope.

And all took returns.  We were told to keep the customer happy.  Some of the merdandise might not have even been ours, but if we also sold it in the store, we took it back.

[emerald40]

I shop EVERYDAY at brick and motor stores that do not give refunds, if you don't, your a a smuck paying WAY too much for your goods.

____________________________________________.

[emerald40]

I worked for a very large jewelry store that did over $24 million a year in sales.

____________________________________

I should have been more specific.  I am referring to department stores, some national, some local.

And everyone I worked at took returns.

[readabouthorses]

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@emerald40 wrote:

I worked for a very large jewelry store that did over $24 million a year in sales.

____________________________________

I should have been more specific.  I am referring to department stores, some national, some local.

And everyone I worked at took returns.

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But I don't think those stores paint all returns with the same paintbrush as eBay does. I looked at the returns policy on WalMart and they have specific requirements for different kinds of items. Returning a book to Wal-Mart isn't the same requirement as returning a dress.

[retrose1 · Accepted solution]

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@graciejoy wrote:

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@usmc*usnmom wrote:

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Gotcha!

I'm the same way with returns and always have been. I even pay return shipping.

Amazon does their 3P sellers the same way Ebay does, only they do ban excessive returners. They don't say the exact percentage, but rumor has it that if you return more than 10-15% of purchases, you get banned. Not just the member, the entire household/address/credit card. Until a person gets that permaban, they are just as free to return boxes of air as an Ebay refund scammer is.

Ebay really, really, really needs to clamp down on serial returners and refund scammers by using not just an ID block, but an address/credit card block as well.  Until they do a seller's only recourse is to fight via third party channels like the police, the Postal Inspectors and iC3.

---

               I think that is an extremely good idea on the part of Amazon. At the store that I worked at for years, we had customers that returned things at the very end of the return period and get something else and then the process would repeat itself. We simply banned them. They were just wearing jewelry and then got tired of it and were basically trading it in for something new. These people did that with every store in town and as and accountant, I can tell you that the accountants and bookkeepers of the businesses knew who these people were in town and we told each other and banned them. That is what retailers normally do. Ebay is the only place that I have seen that lets these people just run amuck. They do not let sellers give accurate feedback, so these same people do it over and over again.

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Never going to happen.

I am sure that ebay has realized that scammers and serial returners buy a whole lot more than any honest buyer ever will.  Amazon makes it up in volume from honest buyers.  ebay makes it from the rest.

[69isleros]

I've literally had people purchase items, then take it apart for the parts, keep what they wanted, make the request and send me back broken parts, and I also had to give a refund, even after the buyer admitted to stealing parts. Also, I have had numerous people contact me on my email address they get on PayPal, and blackmail me for a refund, or bad feedback, eBay stated, it's between you and the buyer, call the police. So I gave a refund, AND got bad feedback! Thanks eBay!

[retrose1]

OP, what hasn't been touched on yet is that your problem has nothing to do with a return policy and has everything to do with the fact that you are a seller of $20 items and have little to no experience listing and selling $1,000 (high scam) items on ebay.

You became a scam magnet when you did that.  and your scammer cashed in on the returns policies to get you.  They could have used anything.  It is never a good idea to list anything high dollar on ebay, especially electronics.  I am a high feedback seller and would not list that item here - and I know how to protect myself and use ebay's policies to my advantage.

There is a saying around here - do not list anything on ebay that you can not afford to lose.

[double2trouble]

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@graciejoy wrote:

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@emerald40 wrote:

Ebay has basically destroyed itself and all of its sellers.

___________________________________

I cannot think of one brick and mortar store (not going out of business) that does not accept returns.  People simply would not shop there.

As far as what the buyer did to the OP, that is due to the moral decay of society as to why returns are getting worse.

And ebay sides with the buyer like most stores do to create good will to keep their customers coming back.,  Unfortunately, that also includes the scammers who abuse it.

When I used to work Christmas returns, we took everything back, no matter what.

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           Most stores do not give into scammers. That is simply inaccurate. Even when they file for chargebacks, most stores simply contest the chargeback and win. I know that because I worked for a very large jewelry store that did over $24 million a year in sales. Whenever we had chargebacks, I simply disputed them. I never lost a case. I have also helped a lot businesses here in town. with their credit card chargebacks and once again, I never lost a case. It is only Ebay that just rolls over for scammers and they do that because they have no investment in that inventory. If they owned that inventory it would be a completely different story. 

      Also most of the stores in this area regularly talk to each other. We know who tries to pull the scams regularaly and they are banned. Most take returns, but if that returned item has been destroyed then they do accept it as a return. Why in the world would you want criminals to come back in your store. I would not want them back. This false idea that the customer is always right only exists in the heads of people who have no idea what they are talking about.

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Ding Ding Ding! Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

This is exactly why you can't compare selling on ebay to any of the big box retail giants. Having a merchant account myself, the credit card processor I use has really gone to bat for me on the few chargebacks I've had, and I have not lost one yet. These companies blacklist people all the time. Too many returns, and no more returns for you. They also implement anti theft measures to protect themselves. If you send a empty box back to Walmart, you are not getiing a refund, period.

Here, who knows? I had a woman file a INR a while back on me for a coat. I looked at her feedback left for others, and it seemed nothing arrived at her house, it all got lost in the mail. I watched that account for over a year before it was NARU. We can't see buyer history, and all info about risk is hidden from us as sellers. This and all the scams is just going to continue the seller exodus until the shopping selection looks like the the 99 cent only store.

[double2trouble]

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@retrose1 wrote:

OP, what hasn't been touched on yet is that your problem has nothing to do with a return policy and has everything to do with the fact that you are a seller of $20 items and have little to no experience listing and selling $1,000 (high scam) items on ebay.

You became a scam magnet when you did that.  and your scammer cashed in on the returns policies to get you.  They could have used anything.  It is never a good idea to list anything high dollar on ebay, especially electronics.  I am a high feedback seller and would not list that item here - and I know how to protect myself and use ebay's policies to my advantage.

There is a saying around here - do not list anything on ebay that you can not afford to lose.

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And that's sad really. I used to sell things on ebay between one and three grand fairly regularly. Now, the stress would kill me, so I don't. I often flip things with a $500 or so profit that I'm a few grand into. A couple scammers and I'd go under for sure. This was a heII of a venue once. Now it's a corporate machine for the stock holders. Oh well, it is what it is I guess, and if there's a market, the next great thing will come along.

[emerald40]

But I don't think those stores paint all returns with the same paintbrush as eBay does. I looked at the returns policy on WalMart and they have specific requirements for different kinds of items. Returning a book to Wal-Mart isn't the same requirement as returning a dress.

___________________________________________

Like I said for me I worked more then a few years as Christmas and after Christmas help, especially in returns.

And we took everything back within reason.  The lines were long and people's patience was short.  There was no time or rules for different kinds of items, at least where I worked.

The stores hoped that if you gave them back the money graciously, they would turn around and spend it and even more in the store.

[emerald40]

Most stores do not give into scammers. That is simply inaccurate.

____________________________________

Remember, we are talking about two different situations here.  In the return line I can see what is coming back.  We were told that as long as it was something we sold, but they might have purchased it elsewhere, to just take it back graciously.

Many stores are all about good will.  Managers do not want to have you get into an argument with someone for the whole store to hear.  

But of course if someone handed me nothing or a rock, or a telephone book and expected their money back, my next words would be to call for "security."