Dishonest chargeback

[captainholt]

Have a buyer buy a $1000 rifle scope, requested a return, and I accepted. He furnished his own label through eBay, and sent it off. It made it all the way to my city, minus the final delivery scan. Item is nowhere to be found.

He opens a case, and during eBays investigation, he files a chargeback, closing the case and leaving only his bank as the decider. He also leaves negative feedback like a true **bleep**, eBay removed it though.

Per eBays policy, I am not responsible for the loss since I didn't furnish the label. He is. Knowing this, I think he then filed a chargeback.

I sent my proof of non-delivery, chat transcripts with eBay stating HE is at fault, as well as eBays policy on the matter. Its been a few weeks and his bank is still deciding I guess.

Since eBay is out of the equation, do you think my bank will offer some sort of protection even though they don't necessarily abide by eBays policy themselves?

I am just asking before I call them tomorrow, they are closed now so I figured I'd just get some opinions in the meantime. 

[m60driver]

---

@captainholt wrote:

Since eBay is out of the equation, do you think my bank will offer some sort of protection even though they don't necessarily abide by eBays policy themselves?

Your bank has no skin in this game.  There exists little protection from chargebacks.  I would send letters to your congressional representatives demanding they change the laws that allow this type of theft by the banks.

[mam98031]

"He furnished his own label through eBay,"  What does that mean exactly?  I've never heard of this.  Normally the seller issues a return label to the buyer.  Why would you let the buyer do their own label??  You have no control over what address they send it back to or even how it is shipped.

"Item is nowhere to be found."  What does this mean exactly?  Is it the carrier that can't find it?  Has the carrier determined it to be missing?  What was the shipping method?  There should have been insurance and a signature required upon delivery.  Was a trace filed on this shipment with the carrier?

"do you think my bank will offer some sort of protection even though they don't necessarily abide by eBays policy themselves?"  Why would your bank be involved at all?  There really is no need to call them as they have nothing to do with this Chargeback process.

[albertabrightalberta]

@captainholt 

You may be eligible for seller protection. Here's the link: 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293&st=12...

Dispute fees, payment holds, and reimbursements

Dispute fees

When a buyer files a payment dispute, the seller will be charged a dispute fee if they challenge or don't respond to the dispute, and they are found responsible for the disputed amount. If the dispute is eligible for payment dispute seller protections, the seller won't be charged a dispute fee.

[albertabrightalberta]

@captainholt 

Are you aware that as a seller, you aren't allowed to leave negative comments in the feedback for buyers? Those feedbacks are eligible for removal and YOUR account can get feedback violations.

[downunder-61]

You should be able to answer the dispute by proving delivery to customer and non then delivery to you.

Type  all relevant information to the case into a word doc and copy and paste any photo proof - in this case the original delivery and the failed return delivery. 

Take a screen shot of the document and upload it as a jpg into the case.

[mam98031]

Let me see if I can clarify a couple things that the OP said in what they shared with us.  

@albertabrightalberta They said the buyer left negative FB on their account and Ebay removed it.

@downunder-61  They have already answered the Chargeback and from what the OP says they are waiting for a response from the Chargeback.

[mam98031]

@captainholt 

When you contact Ebay tomorrow, use Twitter or Facebook [links below] they have better trained CSRs.  And make sure you let them know that the buyer used their own shipping label that is an important piece of info.

BTW, is your funds still on hold for this transaction in your MP account?

[captainholt]

My funds are not on hold, I am not required to refund this person. When a buyer requests an optional return (changed my mind) versus a forced return (item counterfeit, not as described, etc) THEY buy the shipping label through eBay.

eBays policy states the person who purchases the shipping label is the one who is responsible for the loss of the item. The item was never scanned/signed/delivered to me. Its final message is "awaiting delivery scan" from July 29th.

This makes the buyer responsible, and he figured this out through eBay customer service and then filed a fraudulent chargeback. This is dishonest and unfair, so I was going to contact my bank and if the chargeback goes through report it as fraud. 

[captainholt]

If I request a return from you, that is optional such as "I changed my mind" you are under zero obligation to provide me with a shipping label. I have to buy it. Therefore, per eBays policy, I am responsible if the item is lost/missing/stolen.

eBay does not have my funds, the money is still in my bank because he closed the case and filed the chargeback, kicking eBay out of the equation. So when a person fraudulently does a chargeback and pulls money from my checking account, I will report it to my bank as fraud. Hopefully they can help me in that instance. 

[mam98031]

"My funds are not on hold, I am not required to refund this person. "  Then why do you need to contact Ebay.  Are you sure you want to stir the pot again.  That may just backfire on you.  Right now you are fine and not out any money.  

[nocoolnamejane]

Can you show eBay policy that states that whoever purchased the label is responsible for delivery?

Its always been my understanding that unless the item is listed as local pick up only and the buyer arranges their own delivery, you do NOT ever use a buyer provided label as you are not in control of the package getting redirected, recalled or any other issues that may arise.

[mam98031]

"My funds are not on hold, I am not required to refund this person. "  That is not necessarily true.  It will depend on the return policy the seller has on the transaction.

OH NO, when the buyer filed the Chargeback that did NOT take Ebay out of the equation.  The Chargeback is between the CCC, you and Ebay.  If Ebay has told you that you are covered by Seller Protection, then you are fine.  Sooner or later the Chargeback will close out.  

Calling Ebay tomorrow is likely not a good idea if Ebay has you covered already.  But of course it is your decision.

[captainholt]

I am not contacting eBay, I am contacting my bank for a fraudulent chargeback. 

[mam98031]

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request, if the buyer properly filed the claim.  Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.