Dishonest chargeback

[captainholt]

Have a buyer buy a $1000 rifle scope, requested a return, and I accepted. He furnished his own label through eBay, and sent it off. It made it all the way to my city, minus the final delivery scan. Item is nowhere to be found.

He opens a case, and during eBays investigation, he files a chargeback, closing the case and leaving only his bank as the decider. He also leaves negative feedback like a true **bleep**, eBay removed it though.

Per eBays policy, I am not responsible for the loss since I didn't furnish the label. He is. Knowing this, I think he then filed a chargeback.

I sent my proof of non-delivery, chat transcripts with eBay stating HE is at fault, as well as eBays policy on the matter. Its been a few weeks and his bank is still deciding I guess.

Since eBay is out of the equation, do you think my bank will offer some sort of protection even though they don't necessarily abide by eBays policy themselves?

I am just asking before I call them tomorrow, they are closed now so I figured I'd just get some opinions in the meantime. 

[mam98031]

---

@stannyd-7 wrote:

I would give it a little more time before opening a case with your bank. I've been in a similar situation, and the buyer's bank took a few weeks to finally issue a decision. However, you are protected from loss when the buyer issues a chargeback. So if their bank sides with them, eBay will issue you the money that was "lost". 

---

@stannyd-7 

A buyer's bank is not involved with a Chargeback unless the buyer paid with a Debit card.  If they paid with a CC, then the Chargeback was filed with the CCC and the buyer's bank knows nothing about it.

There appears to be some confusion here about how this all works.  It really isn't much different than it was when PayPal was our money processor.  When a Chargeback was filed against us, PayPal handled it completely, or course with information from Sellers, but a Seller's Bank account was NEVER part of the process except maybe to cover a negative balance in the Seller's PP account.

It is no different now that we use MP.  MP is now our money processor and MP handled Chargebacks.  The ONLY time a seller's bank would be involved is if the buyer was refunded and there wasn't enough money in your MP account to cover it.  Then MP may look to your attached bank account to cover the negative balance.

Still your bank never gains ANY information about the Chargeback as it was never filed with your bank. 

All Chargebacks are now filed through Managed Payments.  It use to be PayPal and now it is MP.

[stephenmorgan]

---

@captainholt wrote:

I will report it as fraud to my bank. Please try using your brain for once. 

What more do I want? If his chargeback is successful the money gets pulled out of my checking account in a fraudulent manner. 

---

I do not think it would be considered fraud because you agreed to allowed eBay access to you bank account in order to resolve these type situations.  

The only way it could be fraud is if you revoked your permission to allow eBay access to you bank account and they access your account and withdrew money anyway.

[dbfolks166mt]

Why is this so hard for you to understand? If I lost the chargeback, where does the $1000 come from when he gets his refund? Thin air? Its in my bank, and will be pulled out if I lose. That's something you dont seem to understand. Ebay does not have my money.

     If you actually lost the chargeback you should have received notification from eBay to that effect along with an explanation of what funds were used to reimburse the buyer. Since this buyer had already paid and the funds were deposited into your account prior to the buyer opening the return request the funds will come from one of two places, either your checking account or eBay will pay out of their own funds if this is/was covered under the Seller Chargeback protection. 

     The thing that makes your situation a bit unique is the fact that the buyer originally opened a return request with eBay, which you accepted I am assuming offering a full or partial refund upon you receiving the returned it which has not yet arrived. It appears that case was closed either by the buyer or by eBay when the chargeback was opened. Unfortunately the information you provided in your response to the to the chargeback means nothing to the CC company especially when it comes to any of eBay's policies. If you loose the chargeback and eBay takes the funds from your checking account as downunder-61  mentioned you can appeal the case but what you will be appealing would not be the CC companies decision that is a done deal. What you would be appealing or challenging is whether or not your situation/case falls under eBay's Seller Chargeback Protection Policy in which case all the information you provided and the fact that you have no received the item back may come into play. 

     I hope everything works out for you the chargeback situations, especially when it comes to NAD, are some of the most difficult situations to handle and eBay has not come up with a good way to address them. 

[mam98031]

OK lets get something cleared up here that seems to be part of the confusion.

Did you get a communication from Ebay that stated you are covered under Ebay seller Protection for this Chargeback in question?

[captainholt]

They specifically told me to wait until the outcome to determine that.

"At this stage it's impossible for us to know what the outcome will be. Sometimes financial institutions take upwards of 90 days to make a decision on a claim and that is entirely out of our control. Given the amount it’s very likely they are acting with caution and need approval for certain decision and or are waiting on more time to pass to see what happens. I am afraid however, we won’t know until they give us a verdict. It sounds like you have done all that you can and then some. We hope they see that in their investigation and address it with the information you provided about how we would have handled the conflict. For now, we will have to wait for their decision. ~Beca"

[captainholt]

Thanks. The case was automatically closed the moment he started the chargeback process

[mam98031]

---

@captainholt wrote:

They specifically told me to wait until the outcome to determine that.

"At this stage it's impossible for us to know what the outcome will be. Sometimes financial institutions take upwards of 90 days to make a decision on a claim and that is entirely out of our control. Given the amount it’s very likely they are acting with caution and need approval for certain decision and or are waiting on more time to pass to see what happens. I am afraid however, we won’t know until they give us a verdict. It sounds like you have done all that you can and then some. We hope they see that in their investigation and address it with the information you provided about how we would have handled the conflict. For now, we will have to wait for their decision. ~Beca"

---

Yes I read that.  And what they said is true, but it doesn't answer my question that I previously asked.

Did you get a communication from Ebay that stated you are covered under Ebay seller Protection for this Chargeback in question?

So if you have not received anything from Ebay saying you were covered under Seller Protection for this Chargeback, then it appears you simply need to wait as Ebay has stated for you to do until the CCC makes a determination.

You are lucky they are not holding your funds to cover the refund for this item as they should be doing that if they did not cover you under Seller Protection.

Seems you just need to be waiting now until the CCC gets back in touch with Ebay.

[mam98031]

---

@captainholt wrote:

Thanks. The case was automatically closed the moment he started the chargeback process

---

To be clear @dbfolks166mt .  There was an INR opened in Ebay that it appeared the buyer was not going to win, so they opened a Chargeback.  Ebay closed the claim on Ebay as soon as they were notified that the buyer filed a Chargeback.

[captainholt]

I know you are trying to help and you have been very helpful. But there are times when I question if you are even paying the slightest amount of attention to what I am saying.

You asked me if I received communication from eBay and if I am protected by them and I literally copy and pasted their exact response to your question. What about my answer would make you say I "didn't answer your question"?

No, I have not gotten any communication that I am protected, and my initial answer very clearly answered that question.

By the way, the funds were being held when the Ebay case was open, as soon as the chargeback was filed and ebay stepped away from the situation, they released the money

[mam98031]

No, that communication from Ebay does NOT say you are covered by Seller Protection on the Chargeback, which was the question I asked.

Yes, I see that was a mistake on Ebay's part to release the hold on your funds.  The money should still be on hold because the Chargeback has not been resolved yet.

Ebay did not "step away" from the situation.  They simply closed the case the buyer had filed in Ebay so that only one case was open which is the Chargeback.  Ebay can't "step away" from the Chargeback, they are the ones that has to process it once the CCC comes to their decision on what happens.

[captainholt]

Obviously, they said I have to wait for the outcome before they tell me if I am covered. That's the only answer I have, that answers your exact question for the time being. I have no other information to provide for you regarding that question, yet you still think I "haven't answered it"

[mam98031]

No, actually I don't.  There has been mixed information on the thread and I was just trying to make clear what the status at this time is.

What I have shared with you is true and accurate.

Ebay did not "step away" from the situation.  They simply closed the case the buyer had filed in Ebay so that only one case was open which is the Chargeback.  Ebay can't "step away" from the Chargeback, they are the ones that has to process it once the CCC comes to their decision on what will happens. Then Ebay will notify you.

The CCC is likely dragging their feet in the hopes that the tracking will show movement again.  But when they do decide, Ebay will let you know.  And if the CCC decides in the buyer's favor, I would most certainly file an appeal with Ebay in the hopes that Seller Protection would and should apply.  Unless the item finally gets delivered to you.

I know you plan on contacting your bank.  For what IDK, but it certainly is your decision to make.  Your bank is just going to tell you they don't know anything about the Chargeback, which is true, they play NO PART in this process.  It is all Managed Payments.

Whatever you decide to do, I hope it all turns out for you.