mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@wrong66 wrote:PayPal usually had sellers covered on chargebacks, as long as the seller did everything correctly. Adyen doesn't even try. That seems to be one of the biggest differences between Managed Payments and PayPal.
Adyen isn't involved. Ebay is. And Ebay like PayPal can not control the outcome of a Chargeback. The only ones in charge is the Credit Card Company [CCC].
If the seller submits information to Ebay in regards to the Chargeback, Ebay sends that info on to the CCC.
@dbfolks166mt wrote:PayPal usually had sellers covered on chargebacks, as long as the seller did everything correctly. Adyen doesn't even try. That seems to be one of the biggest differences between Managed Payments and PayPal.
Totally agree. When PayPal was the payment option and the financial processor you seldom heard of a chargeback. PayPal tended to handle the majority of the chargebacks internally without even involving the seller simply because their people were smart enough to check the shipping and tracking information on the order in the case of an INR, or to provide the buyer with information regarding the purchase when there the buyer did not recognize the transaction. Something that eBay and Adyen cannot seem to do even though they have access to the information.
In addition the buyers CC information was linked to their PayPal account. The NAD claims/cases have always been the difficult ones but prior to MP I don't recall seeing a lot of postings about NAD chargebacks. Most of the buyers simply used the NAD claim through the eBay process. Managed Payments and Chargebacks are a scammers dream come true.
You may not have, that doesn't mean others had the same experience. Chargebacks happened in PP too and for many sellers at the same rate they are happening in MP.
PP most certainly did involve sellers. We got emails notifying us of the Chargeback and told to go to the resolution center to give any information / evidence we needed to for the case.
Chargebacks for INRs is the easiest of Chargebacks to resolve whether in PP or Ebay. If the item is delivered per tracking, Ebay Seller Protection protects the seller in the vast majority of cases.
Buyer's CCs were not always linked to their PP account. Buyers could pay for transactions on Ebay using their CCs and having no PP account at all, they could use the system as a guest.
I too have seen an uptick in Chargebacks in the past couple of years. And this is likely happening because buyers are discovering that it is a way to be able to keep the product and get a refund. That is NOT because Ebay allows it, it is because the CCC forces it. This is a really BIG problem and it does need attention by Ebay and their legal team to find a way to help sellers. Some sellers have been significantly financially damaged.
@1tuna wrote:since I have joined MP there have been 3 fee raises in the watches category or 31387.
the FVF for watches has been 15% for a while now
ebay has just announced a new fee structure or raise in FVF for watch parts to start in September I think.
its hard to understand but the watches may not be going up in fees, maybe just the watch parts category.
in any case its a bit hard to figure out the difference in fees for a store owned VS having no store.
this will be the 4th restructuring of the fees for me since I joined MP in october of 2020
at one time it was 12.35 then it went to 12.55 then it went to 15% and its now changing again for back to school
Keep in mind the first fee change for you after entering MP also included your Money Processing fees that you use to pay to PayPal. Overall it wasn't an increase if fees, just a structure change.
The .20 % fee increase happened in April of 2020 BEFORE most sellers were in MP. The onboarding of sellers began in August of 2020 and was completed by December of 2021.
@johnson_junk_company wrote:To all those replies quoting the final value fees and how long eBay’s been changing them on postage……he’s a news a flash. Not all sellers where charged FVF on postage until recently. Casual sellers without stores were not charged until 2021. Secondly, the final value percentage of 12.9 is ONLY on the sale price of the item. The fee on postage and handling is separate . Then add to that the flat 30 cent fee and the sales tax, which shows up in your gross sale numbers even though you never touch it. Then add any fees for promoted listings you might have. This makes the total fees paid waaay over 12.9 percent.
That simply is not true. As of April 2011, ALL seller paid a FVF on stated shipping charges when the buyer PAID for the transaction.
Having a store or not having a store had NOTHING to do with who was charged a FVF on shipping.
Since August of 2020 for all sellers IN MP, there was a single fee. Ebay moved to a Simplified Fee structure for sellers in MP. That fee included the FVF the money processing fee as well as the FVFs on the transaction. It became all one fee plus a 30 cent per transaction fee [just like PP always charged].
The FVF after entering MP in August of 2020 was based on the total amount that the buyer paid. That amount the buyer paid included for the product, shipping and any sales tax the buyer paid. If you take a moment and look at your transaction details in your MP account, you will see that it is one line item for your fees paid to Ebay, not separate fees for shipping and handling or sales tax.
Promoted listings fees are stated separately. You are correct. Keep in mind that promoting listings is NOT a requirement. A seller chooses to use this function and it is the seller that sets the additional FVF they are willing to pay for using the Promoted service. Some sellers use this and some don't.
@maxine*j wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@wrong66 wrote:PayPal usually had sellers covered on chargebacks, as long as the seller did everything correctly. Adyen doesn't even try. That seems to be one of the biggest differences between Managed Payments and PayPal.
Adyen isn't involved. Ebay is. And Ebay like PayPal can not control the outcome of a Chargeback. The only ones in charge is the Credit Card Company [CCC].
If the seller submits information to Ebay in regards to the Chargeback, Ebay sends that info on to the CCC.
Yes, that was my point. No matter who says or submits what, the CCC decides and it decides in the cardholder's favour about 99.99999% of the time, automatically.
The credit card companies do not want to spend any money on investigation or lose any customers of their own, so they smile and nod and okay every chargeback and let the devil take the hindmost -- the hindmost being honest sellers and, ultimately, honest buyers who must pay more for everything to cover the sellers' losses.
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Absolutely. And Ebay isn't failing us anymore in this arena than PayPal did. It is just a very difficult subject and is not something that fairness applies very often.
However with that said, it is actually illegal what the CCCs are doing. If challenged in a court of law, the justice system will NOT support the buyer getting to keep the item and the money too. So this little fact is what keeps hanging up in my throat on this issue. There just seems there should be more we can do to stop the CCCs from doing this.
I personally have only filed a Chargeback once and it was for an Ebay purchase. At that time the chargeback was done through my Discover card. They were wonderful in helping me and I finally got the attention of the seller when they snatched the money for my order back from them [it was a high price order]. The seller tried fighting the chargeback, but my CCC was excellent.
Finally the seller sent a repair person out and fixed the item I purchased. I was happy. Discover notified me that if I wanted to keep the item they would go ahead and close the Chargeback. Or I could still return the item if I wasn't happy, but they would not allow me to do both. I was not allowed to keep the item and get the refund. Which of course is totally fair and I had Discover release the money to the seller.
This is how a Chargeback should be handled IMHO.
You may not have, that doesn't mean others had the same experience. Chargebacks happened in PP too and for many sellers at the same rate they are happening in MP.
Do you have the data source to back that up?
PP most certainly did involve sellers. We got emails notifying us of the Chargeback and told to go to the resolution center to give any information / evidence we needed to for the case.
Sorry you had those issues. Between 1999 and 2020 when I converted over to MP exactly 0 chargebacks, not one. At least none that I knew about. Unsure how many PayPal handled internally. However, I know the risks associated with ecommerce and never list high value or high target items but these days it's hard to pin down exactly what those are scammers seem to be going after everything.
Chargebacks for INRs is the easiest of Chargebacks to resolve whether in PP or Ebay. If the item is delivered per tracking, Ebay Seller Protection protects the seller in the vast majority of cases.
Agreed for domestic shipments, other than those that flow through freight forwarders and those cases where the buyer was in a foreign country and delivery is difficult to prove since many don't have postal systems with tracking.
What is disappointing in these chargebacks is that eBay simply cannot check internally to see if the item was delivered. They have access to the shipping information but still insist on involving the buyer to have them respond and provide the tracking information. The same applies to claims of charge not recognized.
Buyer's CCs were not always linked to their PP account. Buyers could pay for transactions on Ebay using their CCs and having no PP account at all, they could use the system as a guest.
Again between 1999 and 2020 when I was converted to MP never had one buyer use anything other than PayPal to pay for an item and guest account purchases were infrequent. The change to MP and some technology changes have opened up a new frontier for scammers. Using a VPN which hides the buyers true IP address in conjunction with a guest account and temporary shipping location and constantly opening and closing out CC accounts or other payment accounts like Venmo, Google Pay..........makes it difficult to track these individuals especially those overseas that are out of the reach of US law enforcement.
I too have seen an uptick in Chargebacks in the past couple of years. And this is likely happening because buyers are discovering that it is a way to be able to keep the product and get a refund. That is NOT because Ebay allows it, it is because the CCC forces it. This is a really BIG problem and it does need attention by Ebay and their legal team to find a way to help sellers. Some sellers have been significantly financially damaged.
Realize that the decision is out of eBay's hands but since they retain their fees they have little incentive to try and look for ways to fix the issue. Even though they are considered the merchant of record under MP it is not their merchandise or their product. Even the CC companies admit that it is a growing problem but the laws that were put in place to address consumer protection were done so in the infancy of electronic payments and well before the internet and ecommerce were a norm.
EBay could VERY easily implement buyer identity verification tools but that comes with some added buyer processes that eBay is probably not willing to burden the buyer with since they coddle to the buyers and eBay really has no incentive to do so. Some graphics.
