Did I almost get scammed?

[1knighking]

Hello all. I haven been a buyer and seller for almost 15 years here on ebay and I had my first ever serious problem. I sold a galaxy s22 phone. I used it till a few days before I sold it on ebay. The buyer responded after a few days and said the phone was working fine till he updated and it started over headed and turning off. He wanted a partial refund to go get it looked at. I refused since I know it was in %100 working condition.  A few more days later and he opened a request to return the item. I accepted and sent shipping label. He then contacted eBay and said item was hazard to send back since it over heats and cannot send it back. Ebay responded and said he doesn't have to send it back and gets a full refund. I freaked out since something like this has never happened to me and I had a ebay agent call me. I explained the situation and they granted me a appeal and reversed there decision. Was this a scam from the buyer? How can I prevent this from happening again in the future?

[reallynicestamps]

Freight forwarders are the second most secure addresses a seller can ship to.

The buyer has a US address, a company which accepts purchases, deals with the buyer's nation's import fees, and ships overseas.

The reasons shipping to a freight forwarder is so secure:

• eBay regards the item as Delivered when it reaches the forwarder. The seller is no longer responsible for delivery under the Money Back Guarantee (MBG) .
• The import fees are dealt with before forwarding (usually). Between this and the delivery policy, the 'held at customs 'scam is thwarted.
• If the buyer claims Not As Described (NAD) the seller can still demand return before refund, even with a No Refunds policy. The Return Shipping Label, however, is addressed from the Forwarder in the USA not the buyer overseas.

If more sellers understood this there would be less fear of selling internationally.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?...
 


Now -- if the GSP is not involved, but the buyer uses a freight forwarder, does the seller provide Return Shipping from the forwarding address or from the buyer's address?
Oooh this is a good clarification question! A seller is only required to provide return shipping from the buyer's input address at time of checkout - that goes for any return where a seller provides shipping ('free' returns, etc).
 https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/All-Items-Are-Free/m-p/31966203#M1772511
Message #20 from tyler

[retro_entertainment_collectibles]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

the phone was working fine till he updated and it started

He changed it.

The MBG ended right there.

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I disagree completely.

Regular updates to the OS of a phone are the very definition of "functions as designed".

And I think eBay would agree with me.

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That's right.  I have a Samsung S22,  I've had two OS updates in as many weeks actually.  It is a phone that can get pretty warm but if you're shipping it should be drained anyways, any phone.  I'd never ship an S22 (Top of line a year and half back) via the Postal Service, no way.  FedEx or UPS but that aside problems are looming.  Theft on all sides of all coins basically.  Retailers are looking more and more to put merchandise behind plexiglass cases...  Retail theft is growing substantially.  Online theft on both sides consumers and vendors is growing substantially.  At Mamazon apparently they've been rather silently laying off a quite a bit of their grunt work force.  I heard many weeks back that there is likely to be a mass third party seller ejection happening there later this year.

For this place I can only one solution (not that I've tried too hard!) and that's a public facing metrics system with active filters or even a hidden one with more filters.  

[ittybitnot]

New Castle, DE

@1knighking 

Sounds like the typical phone/freight forwarder scam.  They are reported here just about every day now.  Google the address, most of them are well known.  Buyers that use freight forwarders forfeit the right to use the Money Back Guarantee. EBay, however, treats it like any other sale.  There are added protections for sellers, but it is up to the seller to point out to eBay that a freight forwarder was used.  So  unless you know to speak up for yourself and who/where to contact eBay for help your situation will not improve.    Does the ID have feedback so you can see their country of registration? Are they still a registered user? If they are a ZERO feedback member use this link to find out: 

 https://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/feedback-login.html

Contact eBay through one of their social media platforms.  

Here is just one of them.  Use the blue message button at the top of the page: 

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness

This leads to US reps that are actual employees of eBay, and more knowledgeable about this and do have the authority to help you.  Explain you need help with a buyer who used a freight forwarder, and filed a possibly fraudulent claim. 

Regular outsourced foreign call center agents you get in a call back or chat, have no authority for the most part, and you cannot rely on anything they say.  

[sextons-sweet-deals]

This is my view of your question. I'm sure others can add on.

If you're not set up to ship internationally with eBay, international buyers can set up U.S. accounts with a freight forwarder service. 

Those buyers can be positive and negative! That is why I look at my buyer profiles. It should tell you where the buyer is actually located and full feedback as a buyer / seller / left for others. 

[1knighking]

It just says location: united states.  He has %100 positive feedback. Has 3 items for sale from New castle Delaware.  I did Google the full address that i mailed my phone too and yes looks like other people have reported that address as a scam. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     Most other replies have covered about everything and I suspect your phone is in some foreign country being utilized without any problem. The only thing I can add is if you have the IMEI number of the phone report it to the IMEI blacklist and that will render the phone pretty much useless to the buyer. 

     NEVER list anything on eBay that you are not prepared to take the financial loss on. Your listing also specifies no returns but that does NOT translate to no refunds. 

[1knighking]

How do I add to imei blacklist? I do still have the imei number.

[dbfolks166mt]

How do I add to imei blacklist? I do still have the imei number.

https://www.imei.info/How-do-I-add-a-phone-to-the-blacklist/ 

[broto_64]

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@1knighking wrote:

Yeah that's what I was thinking. But the case details said this

We received documentation from the buyer that confirms the item is hazardous to ship. The buyer will not be asked to return the item to you.

I wonder what documentation the buyer sent them.

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Who knows but you state ebay reversed the decision so they found in your favor, likely because the buyer upgraded / updated the software and thus violated the MBG... Which, if anything else comes of it or if you didn't get your money that is the ground I would stand on, that the buyer is in violation of the MBG because they altered the item.

[broto_64]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Freight forwarders are the second most secure addresses a seller can ship to.

• If the buyer claims Not As Described (NAD) the seller can still demand return before refund, even with a No Refunds policy.

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There is no such thing as a No Refunds policy on ebay.

[dbfolks166mt]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. But the case details said this

We received documentation from the buyer that confirms the item is hazardous to ship. The buyer will not be asked to return the item to you.

I wonder what documentation the buyer sent them.

     Probably the specifications for the phone and the USPS documentation on shipping restrictions. The Galaxy  S22 contains a 3700 mAh Lithium Io battery. USPS only allows shipping these types of devices and batteries via ground transportation. Since your buyer is international there is no ground transport available to return the item. I will ignore the fact that the freight forwarder didn't originally ship the item via ground transport although it may have gone on a boat.