eBay

jokass · ‎08-08-2023

I sold a $1500 camera (no returns) and the buyer quickly turned out to be a scammer. First he asked for $400 for faked damages, then just wanted to return the camera. Which, of course, eBay forced me to accept.

Instead of using the eBay-issued return label, he ordered a $7 camera bag from Adorama, had *that* shipped to me, and provided that tracking number to eBay. The camera weighed 9 pounds, his "return" weighed 0.8. And, of course, the tracking number is on a receipt from Adorama attached to a $7 bag.

Despite the fact that I have documentation of all this painfully obvious scam, eBay sided with the buyer. I appealed and somehow lost that too. I finally reached someone by phone who understood what was going on and they entered a "manual reversal" -- but that was a month ago and every rep I talk to gives me a different story about whether it's still an active appeal or it's dead.

In the meantime, I blocked eBay from taking the $1500 from my bank, because it's their mistake -- not mine. Keep in mind, too, they only payed me around $1270 originally because of seller fees but are trying to take a full $1500. They're going to send this to collections but it's obviously their mistake and I can't reach anyone there who can make a difference.

I submitted the case to the FBI internet crimes division. What else can I do here? I've lost the camera and really can't afford to donate $1500 to eBay or have my credit wrecked.

jokass · ‎08-08-2023

@cardxcraft Great response -- thanks! The police sent me to the FBI, so that's where I filed the report. I sent it via UPS and the Adorama return was via UPS Mail Innovations... which utilizes USPS but I'm not sure the chain of responsibility there.

jokass · ‎08-08-2023

I appreciate the detailed response, @duffy4444 .

1. I know it, was merely including that detail for background.

2. I didn't fall for it. I was alerting eBay from the moment the guy asked for $400 cash for damages he wouldn't provide evidence of despite me requesting it that he was a fraud. eBay wouldn't respond other than to tell me I needed to accept the return.

3. You nailed it! The phone reps will say anything. I've talked to 20+ at this point and most of them have said I'm in the right and not not to worry. your eBay for Business tip is fantastic -- I didn't know and will try that immediately.

4. I haven't resolved this yet. I'm hoping for resolution before I have to make that choice.

5. I don't sell much but am savvy enough to have seen this coming. I didn't have reservations about the initial transaction because the buyer had lots of recent feedback.

6. You're right. Lesson learned. I sell infrequently and have never had a bad experience but my days of selling on eBay are over.

Cheers!

ed8108 · ‎08-08-2023

@inhawaii wrote@

The weight difference means absolutely nothing as ebay does not investigate any claim.

----------------- ------------- ---

Ebay should evaluate all evidence in this claim to arrive at a just & fair determination.

Seller should be granted a motion for reconsideration, clarification, & explanation with findings of fact

Seller does appear firm in his position as unwilling to donate $1270 to ebay.

ittybitnot · ‎08-08-2023

I've figured out who the guy is, he lives in Panama but somehow operates this business out of Miami.

@jokass

Sounds like a freight forwarder to me. When a buyer users a freight forwarder, they often void the use of the money back guarantee. They should be denied making such claims through eBay.

eBay, however, does not actively seek or purposely recognize such addresses and treats the sale as any other regular sale. When problems arise, it is up to the seller to point out that it is a freight forwarder situation, and buyer protection becomes void.

Since the product was shipped out of the US, and the label you provided is only from the freight forwarder address in Miami back to you, the buyer cannot use it to return anything. Thus the 'cheap trinket return scam' is employed to get a tracking number to satisfy eBay as evidence of a return. There was a time that I counted over 45 unique sellers reporting this scam on the boards on in one month's time. It is no secret to eBay.

The eBay system is automated. The regular CS outsourced agents cannot or are not allowed to do anything, and for all intents and purposes eBay protects eBay from monetary loss. Once the buyer is refunded by eBay, they cannot take the money back, thus they want it from you regardless of the circumstances and evidence of the cheap trinket return ploy. The facts will be ignored.

The only way that I know that anyone in your position got any redress is by using the big blue MESSAGE button on this page:

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness

This is a chat portal that leads directly to US based English speaking reps that do have the authority to help you. Since the regular CS has such a bad reputation of giving out incorrect advice, or being stuck in the deny mode for eternity, these people are quite busy. There is some indication that they have newer employees that read from the old DENY mantra scripts from time to time as well.

You need to ask for assistance. Supply your user ID, item number transaction item number, point out that product was shipped to a freight forwarder, they buyer is registered in Panama and a another product was purchased on the net to satisfy the return tracking requirement. You can point out the difference in parcel weight, and where it was shipped from etc.

Hope for the best, and do let us know how it turns out. Good luck.

jokass · ‎08-08-2023

@ittybitnot This is incredibly useful information. Exactly what I was looking for in posting here -- thank you. I wish I had known about eBay CS earlier, as I have been trapped in this limbo for a month and it's less likely to be overturned at this stage. Nonetheless, you've given me something to at least try.

The item was received and signed for by someone in Miami, but the business at the address is a shipping company. The buyer shows as being registered in the US. I was only able to find out that he is based in Panama through an extensive Google search.

I'll keep you posted -- thanks a million.

Anonymous · ‎08-08-2023

Companies like Ebay are scammers, in it to make money. They have a million other sales and will disregard one seller or buyer. It is unfortunate. Here's to the very far future, where online stores are shutdown and we have awesome transactions in the community.

I hope your concern works out for you.

mam98031 · ‎08-08-2023

That is quite an Ebay ID you chose. ???

Blocking Ebay from pulling the money is a temporary solve for you. However it will likely cost you the ability to sell on this site when Ebay catches up to the problem.

I would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.

Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service. Please be aware that for social media CS, you send them a Private Message and briefly explain what your problem or issue is. Feel free to leave your Name, address, phone number and/or your email address in this message. It is private and secure and it may help to speed up the response for you.

https://twitter.com/askebay

https://www.facebook.com/eBay/

Your options will be on the left. If you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant or Chat box type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options. Not all options are available 24/7. It will depend on staffing available. So sometimes you can request a call back and sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have the Chat option available and other times it won't me. If it is important to you to use one of those options, just try back later.

If you use a cell phone or other mobile device, you may need to turn off your Spam filter so that Ebay can call you.

If you are a seller outside of the US or Canada, you will need to use the Chat Option.

https://www.ebay.com/help/home

For the Payment Team / Managed Payment Customer Service.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/start-getting-paid-ebay?id=4795&st=

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎08-08-2023

@bonjourami wrote:
The buyer is entitled to receive a complete refund..what you made from the sale is unimportant.Just be aware that Ebay will turn you over to collections. Good luck.

Well but the buyer isn't entitled to steal the camera which is what has appeared to happen from what the OP said.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

mam98031 · ‎08-08-2023

@toomuchstuffagain35 wrote:
Only if they actually return what they received.

If the seller & buyer are both domestic there's always small claims court, or contacting the buyer's local PD.

Yes and if they used USPS to ship you back the wrong thing, you can file a report with USPS. Using USPS in commission of a fraud, which this is, is a FEDERAL crime.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

jokass · ‎08-08-2023

@mam98031 Great info, many thanks! It's amazing to me that the actual means of contacting CS are kept a secret.

The user name was chosen 20 years ago and is a combo of my first and last name. Lucky me. 🙂

I have no interest in selling on eBay ever again after this, but I am concerned that they will send this to collections and ruin my credit. Hoping to resolve it before it gets there!

safan80 · ‎08-08-2023

Contact your State's AG office.

@jokass wrote:
I sold a $1500 camera (no returns) and the buyer quickly turned out to be a scammer. First he asked for $400 for faked damages, then just wanted to return the camera. Which, of course, eBay forced me to accept.

Instead of using the eBay-issued return label, he ordered a $7 camera bag from Adorama, had *that* shipped to me, and provided that tracking number to eBay. The camera weighed 9 pounds, his "return" weighed 0.8. And, of course, the tracking number is on a receipt from Adorama attached to a $7 bag.

Despite the fact that I have documentation of all this painfully obvious scam, eBay sided with the buyer. I appealed and somehow lost that too. I finally reached someone by phone who understood what was going on and they entered a "manual reversal" -- but that was a month ago and every rep I talk to gives me a different story about whether it's still an active appeal or it's dead.

In the meantime, I blocked eBay from taking the $1500 from my bank, because it's their mistake -- not mine. Keep in mind, too, they only payed me around $1270 originally because of seller fees but are trying to take a full $1500. They're going to send this to collections but it's obviously their mistake and I can't reach anyone there who can make a difference.

I submitted the case to the FBI internet crimes division. What else can I do here? I've lost the camera and really can't afford to donate $1500 to eBay or have my credit wrecked.

safan80 · ‎08-08-2023

Ebay doesn't understand basic math. You are asking too much from them and this is why you contact the local police department of the area you shipped to, your own police department, the FBI if you must, the AG office of both states if is a forwarding shipper.

@ed8108 wrote:
How did ebay explain away the weight disparity between original & return shipping weights ?
Buyer by first asking $400 for camera damages confirms that this buyer received delivery of the camera that was listed.
Wouldn't the manufacturer confirm this camera as weighting more than 0.8 ?

Good luck in your appeal

jokass · ‎08-08-2023

@safan80 Unfortunately, I agree. Despite giving them tons of clear proof, they either ignored it or couldn't do the math. I contacted the police and they told me to contact the FBI, which I did.

rugerskick · ‎08-08-2023

Your explanation is exactly why ebay is failing and will continue on the path towards fail.

The ceo wants high value/high dollar sales here, they don't want low value/low dollar sellers.

This is their only stated strategy for saving the site, apart from more and more ways to get money from sellers.

However, it will fail because of scenarios like this. They do not back high dollar/high value sellers when they encounter scammers. Ebay wants them to sell their high dollar items, but do not want to support these sellers when they encounter a scammer. They don't have their back.

Its a strategy doomed to fail. It will not save ebay, it will not be the future of ebay. They will keep enabling the scammers posing as buyers to the detriment of the site, and things will continue on the decline path they are currently on.

rugerskick · ‎08-08-2023

More accurately, ebay enables and facilitates scammers to steal from sellers, via their "policies". Policies they often ignore and do not follow themselves.