Damaged Parcel

[caminocielo]

I sold an item that, because of its weight, size, and value, I entrusted to a business offering packing and shipping (by UPS Ground).  Although traveling only from North Carlina to Vermont, the cost of packing, shipping, and insurance was over $700.00.  Because the large carton in which the item shipped was ripped open and the item exposed, the buyer refused to accept delivery.   In the view of the buyer, the item had been poorly packed.  Evidently, it'd been mishandled as well.

I sold an identical item fifteen years ago, had it professionally packed (by a firm different than the one I used this time), and it arrived at the buyer's address undamaged.  

The item was fully insured, although recovering any portion of the substantial cost of packing and shipping seems doubtful.   Can anyone recommend a course of action?  In more than fifteen years selling on eBay, haven't encountered this issue before.

[mam98031]

@albertabrightalberta 

I understand what the policy says.  I never suggested you or anyone else didn't understand the policy.  There is no need to suggest that I don't understand it either.  And yes if the buyer filed an INR claim and just let it process automatically, they would certainly lose the case.  I didn't suggest doing that.  The buyer needs to work with Ebay directly on this issue.  

I do understand and respect your advice and it is good advice.  I just think this particular case could be handled differently.  Either way, the buyer isn't here to get advice, only the seller is.  So it is just a good conversation.

[tools*]

Is it the 8mm optical printer?

That is one horrific packing job. How in the world did they charge you $700 for that?

If it's a UPS store, they're on the hook for the insurance, including the shipping fee. If not, you should contact your credit card provider after you've received the insurance payment.

[caminocielo]

Yes, it was the Jaakko Kurhi optical printer.  I shipped a nearly identical machine fifteen years ago using a UPS Store that charged me close to $400.00 (with an AAA discount) to ship it about 215 miles, so I thought $704.18 wasn't out of line after the passage of fifteen years and a shipping distance of 900 miles.  Given the quality of the work, however, it seems like thievery. 

The packing/shipping business I used isn't a UPS Store, sadly.   

[mam98031]

Have you contacted UPS to get a copy of their pics of the package and an update on where it is?

Have you started the process for filing your insurance claim?

[caminocielo]

No, I've not contacted UPS.  I can't file an insurance claim until I've examined the contents of the parcel.  UPS tracking indicates the parcel will be delivered to the packing/shipping business today (5/2) by 7:00 p.m.  Since the business closes at 4:00 p.m., it's unlikely I'll know anything before Monday.  

[pikabo-icu]

@mam98031   @albertabrightalberta 

So my question is; what happens if he gets the machine back and it's not damaged?

I know the packing is horrific but there's a chance they only ruined the box in trying to pick it up.

So if it comes back and by some strange miracle it's not ruined, he's now out $700 + likely a couple hundred more to get it back.

That's money he wouldn't be out if buyer had accepted and inspected the item. 

If it's only cosmetic damage perhaps he could have offered the buyer $100 or 2 as a partial to get the cosmetics repaired. 

If that's what happens it seems very unfair to this seller. I know he can try to recover money from the shipper & packers but that's a lot of hoops and at times difficult to recover. 

Does he have any recourse via eBay for that? Since it was returned outside policy? 

ETA: Just realized if it does miraculously arrive intact, he has no recourse against the shipper/packers either so is going to be out around $1000. 

[slati_2013]

I am going to assume this is for the (J-K K-104R Optical Printer (Modified) + Bolex DS8 Camera + Super 8 Printer Gate), item#226700299745. While this is bigger than most items shipped, there is no reason why without proper preparation, you could not have packed and shipped this yourself. I have done so on a few occasions. 

First measure item. Buy a box that the item will fit in with enough cushioning on all sides. This is very important. Use a new box. A used box will easily break apart. Bubble wrap in the bottom of box. Use the bubble wrap to center item by putting bubble wrap to all sides and the top until there is no movement of the item in the box and then seal. 

Go UPS's online site and ship. Put in dimensions and weight. Buy insurance, and here is the important part; choose one or two day shipping. Have UPS come pick it up. It would have cost you far less than you paid the company to pack and ship this for you. Probably would have cost you $500-$600. Why is this important? One day, two day shipping are handled differently by UPS. They are not dumped with everything else. I have shipped big items and items costing several thousands of dollar this way with no issue.  Consider it next time you have something bigger or very expensive to ship. 

[mam98031]

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@pikabo-icu wrote:

@mam98031   @albertabrightalberta 

So my question is; what happens if he gets the machine back and it's not damaged?

I know the packing is horrific but there's a chance they only ruined the box in trying to pick it up.

So if it comes back and by some strange miracle it's not ruined, he's now out $700 + likely a couple hundred more to get it back.

That's money he wouldn't be out if buyer had accepted and inspected the item. 

If it's only cosmetic damage perhaps he could have offered the buyer $100 or 2 as a partial to get the cosmetics repaired. 

If that's what happens it seems very unfair to this seller. I know he can try to recover money from the shipper & packers but that's a lot of hoops and at times difficult to recover. 

Does he have any recourse via eBay for that? Since it was returned outside policy? 

ETA: Just realized if it does miraculously arrive intact, he has no recourse against the shipper/packers either so is going to be out around $1000. 

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Those are all great questions.  IDK for sure.  I'm still stuck on the company that the OP hired to package the item didn't guarantee or warrantee their work.  That seems so darn odd to me not to mention very unusual.  If you pay that kind of money to get something packaged, there certainly should be some recourse on them.  I'm hoping the OP just misunderstood something and they will be held responsible.

For the buyer to know if the item was OK, they would have had to accept the item, unpack it, inspect it and see if it works.  There is no answer to this question for you since that wasn't done.  

From the looks of the pictures posted.  It is hard to fathom that it wasn't damaged in some way because it was free floating inside that box for its entire journey.  Bouncing around inside that box.  Likely to be more than cosmetic damage.  But even if is only cosmetic damage, that isn't what the buyer purchased.

We don't have all the facts yet, so it is hard to say what direction this transaction will go.  It certainly could go a few directions.

[caminocielo]

I thought I'd provide an update about this ongoing nightmare.  The parcel - what was left of it - was returned to the packer/shipper.  I inspected the optical printer on 6 May, finding damage and missing parts, so I asked that the packer/shipper file a claim on my behalf for the insured value, $3,695.00.  Worryingly, the employee to whom I spoke couldn't seem to get the insurance value right.  I was told that payment would be received within one to two weeks.  UPS tracking noted the parcel was damaged.  I telephoned the packer/shipper after one week to ask about the status of the claim and was told UPS had asked for further information and, once the packer/shipper received payment from UPS, they'd write a check to me.  This morning, 15 May, I spoke to a UPS representative to ask about the status of the claim and was told there was no claim open for my parcel.

[slati_2013]

Was it a UPS Store or just a shipping business? Sounds like they just ship by UPS and have no connection to UPS. Or possibly even worse, they actually did not buy any insurance from UPS even though they charged you for it. Your problem may be with this business, not UPS.

Any time I ship an expensive item by UPS, UPS makes me print a second form that I have to give to the driver picking it up or the UPS Store I drop it off at. Without this form, UPS will not process any expensive claim. 

[stephenmorgan]

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@caminocielo wrote:

This morning, 15 May, I spoke to a UPS representative to ask about the status of the claim and was told there was no claim open for my parcel.

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That does not sound very encouraging.  I would do as @pikabo-icu stated ‎on 05-01-2025 09:04 AM.

I know you have concerns about filing a claim in court, but this may be the only way to have this resolved.  I would check with the small claims court and find out what is necessary and follow their procedures exactly.  It is possible they have a form to fill out to give proper notice.  

Was there a user agreement when you purchased the service?  Sometimes this is printed on the back of a receipt.  If so, what does it say about resolving disputes?

Just a quick internet search and I see there are a couple of Legal Assistance services for Senior Citizens in North Carolina.  Maybe call them and see what they offer.

[mam98031]

@caminocielo 

Have you talked to the owner of the packaging store or just the clerks?  You need to step this up and talk with the owner.  You might want to hire a lawyer to make first contact supported by a demand letter.

[rouleur]

Thanks everyone for the recommendations.

I made another trip to the packager/shipper this morning after contacting UPS.  It's a very small operation, not directly affiliated with UPS.   There was no user agreement.  As usual, extracting any useful information from them is impossible.  I was told by the employee to whom I spoke today that the fellow who knew how to retrieve claim information was out until Monday.  When I told him I'd spoken with a UPS representative who said no claim had been filed, he asked if I'd contacted UPS Capital or just ordinary UPS.  The latter, I responded.  He said they wouldn't have information about the claim, but I wondered aloud why the UPS representative wouldn't have forwarded my call to UPS Capital.   Everywhere, service is just getting worse.

[caminocielo]

I spoke with customer service representative at UPS Capital this morning and was told no claim had been filed on my behalf by the packager/shipper.  Then I contacted the police department in the municipality where the business is located to ask if they could offer any assistance.  About an hour later I got a call back from a police sergeant, who told me he'd spoken with personnel at the business.    Forty-five minutes after the packer/shipper opened for business, they telephoned me with a number identifying a claim they'd just filed (ten days after I'd asked them to do so).  Time will tell if it's legitimate.   

[pikabo-icu]

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@caminocielo wrote:

I spoke with customer service representative at UPS Capital this morning and was told no claim had been filed on my behalf by the packager/shipper.  Then I contacted the police department in the municipality where the business is located to ask if they could offer any assistance.  About an hour later I got a call back from a police sergeant, who told me he'd spoken with personnel at the business.    Forty-five minutes after the packer/shipper opened for business, they telephoned me with a number identifying a claim they'd just filed (ten days after I'd asked them to do so).  Time will tell if it's legitimate.   

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@caminocielo   Thank you for keeping us updated. We are all rooting for you on this.

Keep after them, don't let them get away with this. Good Luck!!