Chargeback Filed. What do I do?

[bigdeals.etc]

This is the first time a buyer filed a chargeback with their card while I'm in MP. So I'm not sure how to fight it (since I'm so used to Paypal).

The reason the buyer filed the chargeback "The buyer hasn't received a refund." I looked up this purchase and there's no return filed nor communication with the buyer at all. They left a buyer note saying "Hello can you please send item fast as possible thanks for your business." and that was it. I sent it and it arrived back in October. As far as I know, nothing is wrong. Why should the buyer get a refund???

Here is that the Dispute page is asking me.
Payment dispute details
Status: Open - More info needed

Provide by Dec 8, 2020

To resolve this dispute, the buyer's payment institution needs more info.
Provide evidence

Please upload a file that shows you do not owe the buyer the amount proposed in this dispute.
Upload a file

I can only upload jpg or png. What kind of picture are they even looking for??? I fear I might upload something they aren't looking for and award the buyer the undeserved refund. There isn't even any field for me to type words. Any tips anyone?

[portkoop-0]

I am going to suggest the ebay help CHAT function, apparently that has been a channel that provides support however before taking action I would give this thread 24-48 hours to evolve so that you can process a variety of answers... You do have a little time, obviously I wouldn't wait until the last minute but also I would take advantage of this time frame and not be in too much of a rush to make a decision.

In this particular case I might simply state there's no ebay refund request for this order but again I would wait because you don't want to trigger the wrong resolution.

Here's more information:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes?id=4799

[coffeebean832]

This is what I would do-

Take a screenshot of the order details page. Take a screenshot of the tracking that shows tracking number and confirms delivery. Merge both screenshots into one jpg. Add text to the top of the jpg above the screenshots-

Item ordered (date), shipped (date), delivered (date)

Buyer did not request a return/refund. Buyer did not send any communication after placing the order.

Before you upload the file- because you only get one shot at it- contact Payments CS to make sure there isn't something else you need to include. Also put them on alert that the chargeback reason is bogus so they can note that before they send in your appeal.

[ittybitnot]

Before you upload the file- because you only get one shot at it- ........

At this point in time , your only alternative is to simply refunding and letting the buyer keep the merchandise, is THAT ONE FREAKING PICTURE photo opportunity.  There is no place provided to post any other information via text.  There will be no opportunity to select "refund upon return" either.  If you want CS advice, I would recommend calling a few times to get all the different answers and also asking on the social media channels before making a decision.  What is the timeline "deadline" to decide? 

This 'reason' for the chargeback is a 'new' one on me. It sounds as 'creepy' as that recurring subscription chargebacks sellers were losing for one time purchases a while back.  Sure would like to see the list a buyer can choose from now. 

This reason is not particularly a SNAD....but the form/notice you were given is the same as it if was one....payment dispute, could be  a C.card chargeback, PayPal dispute, or same with the payment provider used. 

[bigdeals.etc]

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@coffeebean832 wrote:

This is what I would do-

Take a screenshot of the order details page. Take a screenshot of the tracking that shows tracking number and confirms delivery. Merge both screenshots into one jpg. Add text to the top of the jpg above the screenshots-

Item ordered (date), shipped (date), delivered (date)

Buyer did not request a return/refund. Buyer did not send any communication after placing the order.

Before you upload the file- because you only get one shot at it- contact Payments CS to make sure there isn't something else you need to include. Also put them on alert that the chargeback reason is bogus so they can note that before they send in your appeal.

---

Thanks for the tips and "workaround" to ebay's super weird process. There's clearly a breakdown in how ebay handles these thru MP. There's no way ebay expects buyers to do your "workaround" to fight these chargebacks... if this is ebay's intention then they are totally crazy. I'm not saying your suggestion won't work and understand you are just trying to create a solution for me. I might try it if I find it worth the effort.

I had ebay call me back and had to transfer me to MP disputes dept. Unfortunately they are super busy and telling me to call back next time (despite the fact that I am on the clock with this). I guess they are trying to inconvenience me so much to fight it that they hope I'll just give up and pay out the buyer.

Can any blue weigh in? I've been so out of this nowadays that I don't even know who the operating blues are. Can someone help me page them?

Lol I'm compelled to just upload a photo of my middle finger to the dispute and see if I'll win it.

[ittybitnot]

Can any blue weigh in?

The "blues" on this board are not allowed to answer questions about eBay MP.  They basically tell you to call CS and ask to speak to the MP department or some such.  The payments board doesn't seem to get any "blue" responses except from @Anonymous  who sometimes answers general questions over there.  At least we could hope for an answer about the "evidence" they want being ONLY ONE PHOTO AND NO TEXT.... is supposed to include.  

[nh7235]

It's not a bogus reason. As bag lady and others have warned, this is the chargeback reason code with no escape: The seller cannot prove a negative, that they did not promise the buyer a refund.

Notice: The buyer only has to CLAIM they are due a refund.

And now we are 2 more layers deep:

- the seller tells eBay,

- eBay tells MP,

- MP tells PayPal/Adyen, and

- PayPal/Adyen tells the card issuer.

Is there any chance your GRAPHIC protest @bigdeals.etc will be lost in the translation?

[bimmerpc1]

That's terrible.  Best advice is to contact MP support, as you've already done.  We've not seen this chargeback reason, it looks like it is horrendous.

Please loop back and let us know what happens with this.  Yikes.

[bigdeals.etc]

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@bimmerpc1 wrote:

That's terrible.  Best advice is to contact MP support, as you've already done.  We've not seen this chargeback reason, it looks like it is horrendous.

Please loop back and let us know what happens with this.  Yikes.

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Yea I plan to call back and hopefully talk to someone in MP disputes to be able to shed some light on this clear run-around they are making me do. I'll report back later.

[bigdeals.etc]

Okay so I was able to live chat with MP Disputes. I apologize if this is lengthy, but I received a plethora of valuable information that many others who experience this can benefit from.

Dispute Fee: So there is that pesky $20 dispute fee charged to the seller once the seller chooses to challenge the dispute. AFAIK, the rep said I wouldn't be charged the fee if I choose to accept the dispute and give the buyer the refund. The rep mentioned if the buyer gets awarded the dispute, I can contact ebay again to credit me back the $20 as well as the transaction amount as long as the tracking shows delivered (I believe Paypal did this too). But if I win the dispute, the $20 dispute fee is non-refundable. The rep said they'd credit this one to me as a courtesy if this happens (because it is my first time). The rep advised me that from here on out, it's financially more beneficial to just agree to the dispute for any transactions less than $20. My current dispute is only $16. So if I just agree to the buyer's ridiculous terms, I actually will save $4 in the long run... I will lose $16 if I bend over and give in, but will lose $20 if I fight and win.

Contacting buyer: I plan to try to contact the buyer to get an explanation of what's going on. If I succeed and find out the buyer made a mistake, they are able to close the dispute but they have to contact their bank (since it's a chargeback). Their bank's wheels may turn slowly and take 2-4 weeks for them to act on this. So basically it's out of me and the buyer's hands now.

Challenging the dispute: The rep mentioned this part is VERY TRICKY since I'm only allowed one file to upload. This is because of the bank, not ebay. The bank only allows one sheet and no typing field. They also don't have access to ebay records... so I can't say something like "look it up and you see there is no return filed." @coffeebean832  is correct in saying I must be skillful and make an elaborate collage with screenshots and verbiage on that sheet to convince the bank reviewer. And the banks rely HEAVILY on tracking information.

Courtesy credit: In the end I asked if it's possible to avoid all this work and waiting if he can approve a $16 credit to me and I just bend over and accept the dispute (not challenge it) since it's clear to him that the dispute the buyer filed is bogus (he looked up records). He said, sorry they can't do that. So I guess I have to do the legwork. Ebay's intention? Who knows.

[mtgraves7984]

Thanks for the thorough (yet concise) update... I'll have to read it several times. I dread it happening to me.

Good luck and keep us posted. As @bimmerpc1 mentions... this is horrendous.

[calntom]

Excellent job so far. Appreciate the living documention.

[wastingtime101]

CS gave you some good and some bad info.

Dispute fee: Unless they changed things in the last 2 weeks, you are not automatically assessed the $20 fee when you dispute a chargeback. You're not charged that fee unless the dispute is ruled against you.

The rep said they'd refund you the $20 fee as a courtesy, but be warned: you only get one courtesy credit of the fee per lifetime. One. Ever. That's it. So use it wisely.

Contacting buyer: Yep, this advice was correct. If the buyer confirms through eBay messages that the chargeback was filed in error then eBay will use that to dispute the chargeback. I won a chargeback that way.

Challenging the dispute: Again, that's correct info. You get one shot at uploading one document so patchwork it and do what you need to include relevant info.

Courtesy credit: Again, that's accurate. eBay won't credit you out of pocket even if they can see it's a bogus chargeback unless it's a dispute reason that qualifies for seller protections and you meet a list of criteria regarding filling your end of the transaction (shipping on time, etc). The list of dispute reasons that have the potential to qualify for seller protections is short.

[farmalljr]

The way I am reading your response is this:

You lose the case, you'll be out 20 bucks. Not so. If you fight and lose, you'll be out $36. 

Been there, done that. 

Here is what I have learned:

If a buyer admits they made a mistake, you can win your case. If the buyer is silent, you will lose a charge back case EVERY time. The buyer's bank/card holder is the one that makes THE decision. NOT Paypal/Ayden. In every case of a chargeback, all Paypal/Ayden are doing is submitting the documents FOR you. They have ZERO interest in if you win or lose, it's YOU that ends up out the money, not them. 

So really in the cases of a chargeback, the only thing the seller can do, is reach out to the buyer through eBay and get them to admit they filed a false claim or they made an error in filing a case. If you refund because you can't get a response, you'll save the charge back penalty, but lose the ability to file cases with the postal inspector and the FBI internet crimes (which aren't going to investigate small claims anyway). 

Standing on your principals and fighting this case is just going to cost you more than the sale price. You won't win short of the buyer admitting wrong, and no one is actually going to investigate/prosecute a thief. You'll lose and likely will get a "ding" on your account (even if they say you don't). 

Yes I know we shouldn't have to put up with people stealing our items, but it's happening and their is nothing we can do about it. You either work with what you have, or you leave, or you may at some point, get forced out. Write the $16 off as a loss on your taxes and move on. Block the buyer, and move on. About all you can do. 

[bigdeals.etc]

UPDATE:

I tried to contact the buyer and they finally replied... after I already submitted my collage photo to the chargeback (tracking numbers and stuff saying buyer never communicated with me nor filed for any refund).

The buyer replied that apparently they never received the item despite tracking showing delivered. They never mentioned this to me, but they claimed they tried asking USPS but they haven't gotten anywhere with them. This was done thru ebay messaging.

So what now? I'm sure the bank doesn't know this info and I'm not sure if they'll even care if they did know. But AFAIK, I followed every protocol for Seller Protection... did I not?