mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@gurlcat wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:So what IS eBay's time limit for SNAD's? There has to be some number of days before the buyer loses the option.
30 days if the SNAD is filed in Ebay. 180 days if it is filed with their financial institute.
Okay, but say the buyer files the chargeback with their financial institute ... 35 days after purchase. Too late to RETURN the item to the seller even as a 'Not As Described' return. Chances are the chargeback will be found in favor of the buyer, and force eBay to relinquish the money. What I'm trying to figure out is why eBay holds sellers accountable for the money (takes it from the seller's funds) if there was absolutely no way the seller could have avoided it without also losing their item.
Do you get what I'm saying? If eBay doesn't provide a way for the buyer to return the item after 30 days, and also yanks the money from the seller's account because the chargeback was filed sometime between day 30 and day 90 ..... how is that fair?
I have seen plenty of posts here were someone always replies (basically) "Them's the breaks!" or "That's the cost of doing business!" or "Don't sell anything you can't afford to give away!" But it can't be THAT absurdly unfair, and that easy for buyers to get stuff for free. If so, then why doesn't it happen a lot more often?
I have never said the process is "fair". If you are looking for fairness, this type of situation is rarely going to be that.
@isaiah53-57 wrote:
@themartinlady wrote:Buyers are allowed to initiate a charge back from their bank and not exactly through ebay.
This is a terrible loop hole.
We as sellers have no leverage or recourse. We are at the mercy of the bank who will protect their customer even though that customer is committing fraud.
The banks SUCK.
Ebay better figure out a way to protect the sellers.
I already took a break selling because I worried about the charge backs. Now it happened right off the bat.
I just spoke to ebay and they basically said there is nothing they can do and that this goes on everywhere. Anyone can dispute with any entity. Stores, cable companies, phone companies, etc. It is a terrible loop hole that the thieves exploit and the bank back up and the vendor (whoever it is) gets completely hosed.
Ebay really better figure out a way to protect the sellers or there will not be anyone willing to get sell and get screwed.
It not the banks fault - Its the people working on your behalf - When we had PayPal as the money processor, I won every single charge back - I didnt have to do a thing - My money processor did all the work(that would be PayPal) - Now? - all I can say is PayPal ain't around no more to handle these things and ebay customer service?...well we dont have to go there do we...
@themartinlady and @isaiah53-57
A chargeback can not under any circumstance be initiated through Ebay. It isn't a "loop hole". It is and has always been the procedure the buyer has to take, going directly to their payment source and filing the claim.
Chargebacks and how they get handle are NOT Ebay's fault. They are the rules in which Chargebacks are done that has so many rights for the card holder and very little to the actual seller or vendor. Ebay doesn't control that and neither does PayPal or any other money processor.
I've been fortunate and I too have won all my Chargebacks when PayPal was our processor and I've won the few I've had now with Ebay as our processor. The exception I would have with this is I had to submit my evidence when I used PayPal and I submitted my evidence when they happened in Ebay.
With that said, it isn't an easy process for sellers. You can give up and do nothing to try and win or you can get proactive and gather all the information you can to fight the Chargeback. Completely up to the seller involved.
I have to say, the Chargebacks I received when PP was our processor that were won totally by PP submitting whatever info to the financial institute was on INRs since PP had the info as I shipped through them. PP in my cases never had evidence to submit when it was an INAD filed at the financial institute, that was for me to provide.
@gurlcat wrote:Chances are the chargeback will be found in favor of the buyer, and force eBay to relinquish the money.
If eBay doesn't provide a way for the buyer to return the item after 30 days, and also yanks the money from the seller's account because the chargeback was filed sometime between day 30 and day 90
1. When the card issuer notifies PayPal of the chargeback, the entire amount is pulled, plus e.g. $25. Right then; there is no discusssion.
2. A PayPal bot then turns around and automatically pulls that amount from the eBay account opened at PayPal, but suspends the chargeback settlement fee (likely a reduced amount previously agreed with a sweetheart deal) until the chargeback is resolved.
3. Then eBay, which is not a credit card processor and not the merchant of record
4. gives the seller FOUR LEVELS DOWN IN MANAGED PAYMENTS FROM THE BUYER a chance to get their item back. But eBay does "yank" the money from the seller's account because the chargeback already pulled the entire amount from PayPal (or Adyen if the buyer paid by credit card at checkout).
The money is NOT pulled, it is put on HOLD pending the outcome of the Chargeback. PayPal can't charge a $25 fee directly to the seller as the Chargeback is processed through Ebay as our money processor and it is Ebay that will charge a $20 fee if the seller loses the Chargeback.
While some buyers do use PayPal to process a credit card payment they don't process them all. Ebay can and does process credit card payments without anything to do with PayPal.
But I think you bring up some good points and some clarity on this could help us all.
When a buyer pays via Paypal using a Credit Card, does that then mean that sellers must deal with PayPal to process any Chargeback that may result on the transaction?
As a seller I've never been made aware of if a Credit Card payment was processed by Ebay or PayPal, always seems to be Ebay now. And I'm not aware of why a seller would have to respond or defend themselves in PayPal for a Chargeback.
Any help you can give would be appreciated.
@gurlcat wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:So what IS eBay's time limit for SNAD's? There has to be some number of days before the buyer loses the option.
30 days if the SNAD is filed in Ebay. 180 days if it is filed with their financial institute.
Okay, but say the buyer files the chargeback with their financial institute ... 35 days after purchase. Too late to RETURN the item to the seller even as a 'Not As Described' return. Chances are the chargeback will be found in favor of the buyer, and force eBay to relinquish the money. What I'm trying to figure out is why eBay holds sellers accountable for the money (takes it from the seller's funds) if there was absolutely no way the seller could have avoided it without also losing their item.
Do you get what I'm saying? If eBay doesn't provide a way for the buyer to return the item after 30 days, and also yanks the money from the seller's account because the chargeback was filed sometime between day 30 and day 90 ..... how is that fair?
I have seen plenty of posts here were someone always replies (basically) "Them's the breaks!" or "That's the cost of doing business!" or "Don't sell anything you can't afford to give away!" But it can't be THAT absurdly unfair, and that easy for buyers to get stuff for free. If so, then why doesn't it happen a lot more often?I have never said the process is "fair". If you are looking for fairness, this type of situation is rarely going to be that.
But if it's really so simple to get free stuff, why don't we ROUTINELY have buyers just waiting until day 31 and then filing CCC's?
I think that should be obvious. Most people are good people and not thieves. Which is why the vast majority of transactions go off without a hitch.
If every buyer were problematic then there would be no reason for sellers to even be here as we couldn't make any money.
@mam98031 wrote:
The money is NOT pulled, it is put on HOLD pending the outcome of the Chargeback. PayPal can't charge a $25 fee directly to the seller as the Chargeback is processed through Ebay as our money processor and it is Ebay that will charge a $20 fee if the seller loses the Chargeback.
While some buyers do use PayPal to process a credit card payment they don't process them all. Ebay can and does process credit card payments without anything to do with PayPal.
But I think you bring up some good points and some clarity on this could help us all.
When a buyer pays via Paypal using a Credit Card, does that then mean that sellers must deal with PayPal to process any Chargeback that may result on the transaction?
As a seller I've never been made aware of if a Credit Card payment was processed by Ebay or PayPal, always seems to be Ebay now. And I'm not aware of why a seller would have to respond or defend themselves in PayPal for a Chargeback.
Any help you can give would be appreciated.
Hey @mam98031! As a seller in a chargeback scenario you will work with eBay directly and not with the payment processor. We (eBay) will ask and provide any of the information that the payment processor is requesting.
Devon,
@gurlcat wrote:Firstly, Paypal is only one of many ways people buy here. I just use my debit or credit card for instance.
Few debit cards can file chargebacks.
Payments by credit card file chargebacks with:
-- PayPal
-- eBay checkout, processed by Adyen
-- Google Pay, processed by Adyen
-- Apple Pay, processed by Adyen
PayPay payments by all methods can file disputes immediately escalated to a claim, no 20-day wait. eBay calls it a payment dispute, both credit card chargebacks and PayPal claims.
@gurlcat wrote:But I also don't understand what you're saying "gives the seller four levels down in managed payments" -???
In managed payments:
1. Credit card issuer
2. PayPal the merchant, or Adyen the merchant
3. eBay's account at PayPal, or eBay's account at Adyen
4. The seller is four levels down when there is a payment dispute.
@gurlcat wrote:Then you say the seller DOES have a chance to get their item back -how?
Please look at message #33. -Doesn't sound like he was given the option to receive his coin back.
Please look at the payment dispute again:
eBay asks the seller for the return address, to get the item back.
Lets keep in mind that here on Ebay, sellers ONLY deal with Managed Payments. Ebay deals with all the various payment methods. But a seller dealing with a Chargeback due to the buyer filing with their payment source still ONLY deal with the issue through Ebay Managed Payments.
Lets not make it more complicated than it is.
@rseuqinh wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:Then you say the seller DOES have a chance to get their item back -how?
Please look at message #33. -Doesn't sound like he was given the option to receive his coin back.Please look at the payment dispute again:
eBay asks the seller for the return address, to get the item back.
@amwldcoin did your chargeback give you this ^ screen, where you could verify your return address, so the buyer could send your coin back, even though it was past eBay's 30-day return window?
@rseuqinh Even if that IS on all chargebacks, it doesn't mean the buyer WILL send the item back. According to @mam98031 if they just keep it, that's fine and they'll get their money back too!
I don't know who to believe, so yall can fight it out, and I'll watch! 🍿
