Charge Back Fraud

[themartinlady]

Buyers are allowed to initiate a charge back from their bank and not exactly through ebay.

This is a terrible loop hole.

We as sellers have no leverage or recourse. We are at the mercy of the bank who will protect their customer even though that customer is committing fraud.

The banks SUCK.

Ebay better figure out a way to protect the sellers.

I already took a break selling because I worried about the charge backs. Now it happened right off the bat.

I just spoke to ebay and they basically said there is nothing they can do and that this goes on everywhere. Anyone can dispute with any entity. Stores, cable companies, phone companies, etc. It is a terrible loop hole that the thieves exploit and the bank back up and the vendor (whoever it is) gets completely hosed.

Ebay really better figure out a way to protect the sellers or there will not be anyone willing to get sell and get screwed.

[yuzuha]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

About the only type of Chargeback that is easily won with Seller Protection coverage is on INRs when there is clear evidence that the item was delivered via having delivery scans on the tracking.

---

"Unauthorized Use" chargebacks are also very easily won on the seller's end as long as you have proof that you shipped to the address on the Order Details page.

[amwldcoin]

Ahhh! Upload a screenshot of the order details and a small written note disputing the chargeback. In hindsight, the rep really didn't give me good advice. 2 important things I should have included in the note was there was no communication or attempt to return from the buyer and the buyer had left positive feedback after he received his item. I just described the item and said I would not issue a refund unless I received my item back.

[mam98031]

@amwldcoin 

" I'm absolutely not worried about outing the user!"

Except you should, it is against the policies of the Community to do so.  You should have blacked out that info.

[amwldcoin]

Resolved! The buyer has paid and raised many questions about the payment system! Here is his message to me through eBay after leaving a message on my answering machine.

 PayPal said they filed a claim against my credit card company. My credit card company said
they filed a claim against PayPal, and Ebay was absolutely useless. Anyway I finally saw, with my own 2 eyes, that
my credit card company credited my account for $318.75. It took me a while to figure out, that it was YOUR
coins $318.75. The worst part of this nightmare was that I DID NOT FILE A CLAIM with anybody. That is why at first
when I communicated with you, I was saying "what the heck is this guy talking about." I am glad this most fruitless
situation is finally coming to a rightful END. Please email me stating that if I, which I am going to, PayPal you $318.75,
the issue over non-payment for the 1904-S, Barber Half Dollar, PCGS, VG10, is OVER, and you will be dropping all claims
of non-payment against me, on any venue that you complained to about, in regards to this situation. Please compose this message, through this venue tonight, and I WILL pay you, using your official, Ebay, PayPal, email address TONIGHT.

[gurlcat]

Sometimes what happens is a customer files an 'unrecognized transaction' case about a totally different item they see on their account, and the bank/credit card/processor/whatever (stupidly) charges back all transactions within some timeframe that the disputed item occurred.  I suspect that's what happened with your buyer.  You were obviously wise to put a little fear into them, for them to voluntarily (re)pay you for the coin, because theoretically they didn't HAVE to, so congratulations! 

Thing is, I'm still not sure why eBay didn't do a courtesy refund without taking your funds.  You speculate that the CSR didn't advise you to provide enough critical information, and that could be true, but I'm not so sure.  From other threads I've seen here, it seems that positive feedback left prior to any kind of dispute doesn't matter one lick, because theoretically a buyer could be delighted at first, before realizing something is actually wrong.  And as for the fact that this buyer didn't attempt an in-house return before the chargeback was initiated -wasn't the return window already closed?  I believe you said the chargeback showed up several weeks after purchase, yeah?  

If so, this still leaves me wondering why eBay would make a seller pay for a chargeback that occurred AFTER their own (eBay's) limititations for returns have been exceeded.  That would truly be unfair to sellers as it would put them in an impossible situation. 

[amwldcoin]

The buyer could have still forced a return if it was a SNAD. I've already heard from another pier that he has heard of this happening. Perhaps what you said about unrecognized transactions has a lot of merit!

[kennys-kollectibles]

Y'all want some perspective on this subject?

If the chargebacks were screwing ebay out of money, ebay

would put a stop to it.   Since the transaction is not being handled

by any one seller, (it is being handled by ebay), then there should 

be an easy way to stop this from happening.  

Question?  When this type of scam happens to a seller, 

does ebay provide  the bank in which this occured and a phone

number to contact, so you can report this? Or at least tell your

side of the story? 

[gurlcat]

So what IS eBay's time limit for SNAD's?  There has to be some number of days before the buyer loses the option.  

[gurlcat]

No businesses can stop chargebacks.  Not Ebay, Walmart, Amazon, grocery stores, pet groomers, ANY place that takes cards MUST forfeit the funds when the card company says so.  I even did a chargeback on Dish Network once, when they drafted my funds without my consent.  

[mam98031]

---

@kennys-kollectibles wrote:

Y'all want some perspective on this subject?

If the chargebacks were screwing ebay out of money, ebay

would put a stop to it.   Since the transaction is not being handled

by any one seller, (it is being handled by ebay), then there should 

be an easy way to stop this from happening.  

Question?  When this type of scam happens to a seller, 

does ebay provide  the bank in which this occured and a phone

number to contact, so you can report this? Or at least tell your

side of the story? 

---

You may need a little more perspective on this subject too.  Ebay can not control Chargebacks, anymore that PayPal, Amazon, Etsy or any other site.  It does sound reasonable that the site would have some control, but the fact is they do not.

Each site that processes payments from credit card companies sign a contract for services.  One in which they have to abide by.

[mam98031]

---

@gurlcat wrote:

So what IS eBay's time limit for SNAD's?  There has to be some number of days before the buyer loses the option.  

---

30 days if the SNAD is filed in Ebay.  180 days if it is filed with their financial institute.  

[mam98031]

---

@amwldcoin wrote:

Resolved! The buyer has paid and raised many questions about the payment system! Here is his message to me through eBay after leaving a message on my answering machine.

 PayPal said they filed a claim against my credit card company. My credit card company said
they filed a claim against PayPal, and Ebay was absolutely useless. Anyway I finally saw, with my own 2 eyes, that
my credit card company credited my account for $318.75. It took me a while to figure out, that it was YOUR
coins $318.75. The worst part of this nightmare was that I DID NOT FILE A CLAIM with anybody. That is why at first
when I communicated with you, I was saying "what the heck is this guy talking about." I am glad this most fruitless
situation is finally coming to a rightful END. Please email me stating that if I, which I am going to, PayPal you $318.75,
the issue over non-payment for the 1904-S, Barber Half Dollar, PCGS, VG10, is OVER, and you will be dropping all claims
of non-payment against me, on any venue that you complained to about, in regards to this situation. Please compose this message, through this venue tonight, and I WILL pay you, using your official, Ebay, PayPal, email address TONIGHT.

---

I'm not sure I believe what they are telling you, but at least you are getting somewhere.

All your buyer needs to do is notify they CCC that the chargeback was a mistake, all is fine and then they would reprocess the payment to you.

I would be very cautious of them creating an entirely new method of payment.  

They can get online to their CCC and reverse the money with a couple of clicks.

[zgnisaer]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

---

@amwldcoin wrote:

I just had a charge back. Customer received the item, Left nice feedback and Several weeks later filed a charge back for item not as described with absolutely no communication and will not respond to messages. Disputed the charge back, the weeks rolled by and bam, funds taken from me as the Credit Card ruled in the buyers favor. Buyer gets his money back and gets to keep a top 3rd party certified coin. This is theft BTW.

In my opinion eBay's seller protection is false advertising. No where does it say you are not covered if you follow the guidelines and the banks rule against eBay. Could some one point me to where it states this?

---

All your buyer needs to do is notify they CCC that the chargeback was a mistake, all is fine and then they would reprocess the payment to you.

I would be very cautious of them creating an entirely new method of payment.  

They can get online to their CCC and reverse the money with a couple of clicks. 

---

Nope sorry, that's truly nonsense. Once the charge is reversed to the buyer, the card issuer cannot rebill the buyer to send that payment back to PayPal THE MERCHANT OF RECORD at the buyer's whim.

If the buyer wants to pay again, the card issuer would tell the buyer to resolve that with @amwldcoin the seller directly.

There are no "couple of clicks" to "get online to their CCC and reverse the money" -- otherwise, post a screenshot of any CCC website, yours or anywhere you can find someone's screenshot to "reverse the money with a couple of clicks" on a credit card, to prove you are correct.

[mam98031]

You can call in "nonsense" if you want, but it doesn't change what I said. 

I know your buyer is saying they did not file a dispute with their CCC, but they likely did.  It may have been an accident or they may have changed their mind, but in all likely hood they filed the dispute.  Now their CCC honored it and refunded the buyer's CC for the amount.

The buyer has every right and really responsibility to notify the CCC they made a mistake, the seller should have been paid, so reverse the credit.  

The CC works the same if PayPal is the MOR or if Ebay is.  The MOR doesn't matter with this.  

It is find if you don't agree.  

[isaiah53-57]

---

@themartinlady wrote:

Buyers are allowed to initiate a charge back from their bank and not exactly through ebay.

This is a terrible loop hole.

We as sellers have no leverage or recourse. We are at the mercy of the bank who will protect their customer even though that customer is committing fraud.

The banks SUCK.

Ebay better figure out a way to protect the sellers.

I already took a break selling because I worried about the charge backs. Now it happened right off the bat.

I just spoke to ebay and they basically said there is nothing they can do and that this goes on everywhere. Anyone can dispute with any entity. Stores, cable companies, phone companies, etc. It is a terrible loop hole that the thieves exploit and the bank back up and the vendor (whoever it is) gets completely hosed.

Ebay really better figure out a way to protect the sellers or there will not be anyone willing to get sell and get screwed.

---

It not the banks fault - Its the people working on your behalf - When we had PayPal as the money processor, I  won every single charge back - I didnt have to do a thing - My money processor did all the work(that would be PayPal) - Now? - all I can say is PayPal ain't around no more to handle these things and ebay customer service?...well we dont have to go there do we...