Changes Coming, read "Updates to the eBay User Agreement"

[civicwagonparts]

You should have gotten an email, "Updates to the eBay User Agreement".

What this means to you:

Rolling out In August 2020.

#1: eBay now has a legal way to force your existing listings to accept Managed Payments.

#2: eBay now a way to legally force MP on you.

#3: Sellers cannot get together and sue eBay, we have to file individual lawsuits.

Sent to me from eBay on 7/17/2020.

"At eBay, we strive to make our policies clear and our services easy to use. As part of that commitment, we’re announcing some changes to the eBay User Agreement.

Our updated User Agreement will take effect on August 20, 2020. You can read the updated User Agreement on eBay.com.

Key Updates:

• •

  We've revised Section 6 labeled "Listing Conditions" to clarify that some listings will have pre-determined or new payment processes.

• •

  We've revised Section 14 labeled "Managed Payments" to clarify the payment entity services.

• •

  We’ve revised Section 18 labeled "Legal Disputes" to update our agreement regarding arbitration proceedings.

Read more  ➔

Thank you for being a part of the eBay community""""""

[corvettestainless]

Seems all ok to me; 

After all, it's their sandbox. 

[prettywoman-2012]

"#3: Sellers cannot get together and sue eBay, we have to file individual lawsuits."

This is against the LAW of the U.S.A. as established by multiple precedence cases, among those, by the U.S. Supreme Court. 

eBay or any other business entity cannot mandate arbitration or prevent people from entering a class action lawsuit. 

Just another strong-arming of eBay sellers, I see. I will need to read the rest, but this one is a cherry on the cake. And it does not entice me to continue to sell here after Aug 20th. 

PW😄🐿

[prettywoman-2012]

Here is a link that explains it more. Note that the Supreme Court decisions where the arbitration rules could be enforced mostly are about employer vs. employee cases (with some exceptions). 

eBay is not our employer. 

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/mandatory-arbitration-clauses-in-business-agreements-397425

Arbitration in California

https://www.fisherphillips.com/resources-alerts-new-california-law-prohibits-most-mandatory-arbitrat...

PW🐓

[scstool]

"eBay is not our employer. "

It sure seems like I am an employee at times. The one test for common law employee that fails though is we set our own hours. But the amount of control ebay exerts makes us like employees. 

The Uber and Lyft "gig economy" court cases may have some application to Ebay in the future. As sellers we have become a specialty labor class that is not well covered in existing labor law. At some point in the future I think the pendulum may swing and sellers may have a stronger voice.

[evry1nositswindy]

If eBay is not our employer, why do we have to follow their rules?  If I am my own boss, can I make up my own rules?  If eBay is not our employer, why do all of my packages leave the house in eBay labels/tape?  Yes, eBay is our boss because we have to abide by their rules...that change quarterly.

[corvettestainless]

That's not what your link says; it says Supreme Court in 2013 upheld it for consumers; Another Supreme Court case allowed employees to not use Arbitration in 2018.

The Calif case was only for employees. 

Therefore, arbitration is perfectly legal for them on include in their Terms of Use for Consumers, and you using the site, you agree to that. 

[southern*sweet*tea]

---

@evry1nositswindy wrote:

If eBay is not our employer, why do we have to follow their rules?  If I am my own boss, can I make up my own rules?  If eBay is not our employer, why do all of my packages leave the house in eBay labels/tape?  Yes, eBay is our boss because we have to abide by their rules...that change quarterly.

---

Ebay isn't your employer. Ebay provides you a service by allowing you to list items for sale on THEIR website.

Their website - that's the whole thing right there. This is Ebay's big giant playpen, and as long as we want to play in the playpen, we have to do what the playpen owner says. 

[koochiekoo]

Maybe we should let Ebay take all the money and cut us a commission paycheck every 2 weeks. Sure starting to feel like that anyway.

[luckythewinner]

---

@prettywoman-2012 wrote:

"#3: Sellers cannot get together and sue eBay, we have to file individual lawsuits."

This is against the LAW of the U.S.A. as established by multiple precedence cases, among those, by the U.S. Supreme Court. 

eBay or any other business entity cannot mandate arbitration or prevent people from entering a class action lawsuit. 

---

WayFair's arbitration clause in terms of use upheld by court:

https://www.brannlaw.com/home-featured/web-arbitration-clauses-federal-court-upholds-terms-of-use/

DirectTV's arbitration clause in terms of use upheld by supreme court:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIRECTV,_Inc._v._Imburgia

American Express arbitration clause in terms of use upheld by supreme court:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am._Express_Co._v._Italian_Colors_Rest.

AT&T arbitration clause in terms of use upheld by supreme court:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepcion#Judgment

[prettywoman-2012]

@corvettestainless and @@evry1nositswindy  You guys need to make up your mind. Either, you are citing cases that involved employer vs. employee restrictions or mandatory arbitration - or you cite cases where a service provider was winning a case against its customers. I think eBay is not our employer, rather, a service provider with us sellers being its customers. The confusion comes from eBay sellers being mostly free entrepreneurs who own their own businesses, and as such, they are not eBay employees, no matter how much eBay would love to convince them of the contrary.

The relationship between eBay and you is - we sellers are customers to eBay. We bring our goods and inventory to this MARKETPLACE, in the hope that we make sales and turn some profit.

Just like our buyers are OUR customers, and you would possibly not tell your buyer named Mr. Duffy, "Hey Mr. Duffy, I am your boss and you cannot sue me only arbitrate!!! And if you don't agree with me, go pound sand because I am not selling to you anything."

If you think eBay is your boss, I have to wonder

(a) how many bosses you had, in your life, thus far, and 

(b) how many other bosses you have currently (in case you also sell elsewhere, like Amazon, Shopify etc.). Is Mr. Bezos then also your boss, without giving you any regular, agreed-upon paychecks, paid vacation and other benefits like healthcare? When eBay starts handing out employer to employee contracts to me and other sellers, then (if I agree to the terms) eBay will become my employer (=boss). But not one minute before that. 

I most certainly agree with @scstool about his last sentence. The voice of small business owners should and will soon be heard much louder by the courts. 
PW