Camera Buying scam whereby buyer claims damage, asks for return and gets refund, no return

[jeffpierre]

Hi, 

I've been selling on ebay for a while (15 years), and never had  a problem with any item I've sold, and never had anyone ask for a return - until a few weeks ago.  I put a beautiful Nikon F3HP with a lens up for auction, and the auction winner ended up being a camera shop in brooklyn NY.  I sent it up, got my money, assumed all was good.  After a day or so, I get a request for a return, with a picture and a comment saying their "expert" noticed a broken part - even though it had been fine when shipped, and it was very well packaged.  Even though the item was listed as seller doesn't accept returns, I decided (foolishly) to accept.  As it was the first time doing this, the prompting for printing the labels and issuing the returns for the first time was a bit confusing, I again foolishly issued full return without receiving the item back yet.  

So what happens, nothing of course, the buyer returned no ebay messages, ebay issues a 2nd return label, and what happens - why no return.  I start reading the feedback on the buyer, all positive, how...?   Then I notice a Postitive feedback in all caps from @masowilliam_69 which jumped out, all caps, don't buy, scam, ... almost identical situation as mine.  I unfortunately after payment was prompted for feedback, gave it, fast payment, or something of the sort.  Did you know you don't seem to be able to change your feedback after.... and this no negative feedback if very very bad.

So then I look on the google reviews of the business, and the yelp, and their facebook page, I see many more 1 star reviews with the same story.   

Ebay should be shutting these scam buyers down, I'm very disappointed in their approach to solving this when there are what appear to be many many complaints.  Their needs to be a simple three strikes your out, or less rule at EBAY,  why do they not ban these scam accounts - thoughts?

Thanks for reading

Jeff

[farmalljr]

It wasn't a scam at this point. You refunded before the item was returned. They have NO obligation to send the camera back to you. Morally, yes, but not according to eBay's rules. 

Sorry it happened, but hopefully this won't happen to you again. Mistakes can be costly. I would add them to your blocked list, nothing else you can do now. 

[jeffpierre]

Seems like those rules should be changed doesn't it.  I believe the prompting by ebay on the fund returns was a bit can I say deceptive, as many others seem to have made the same mistake.  It has been theorized by others that this company uses parts and pieces from these vintage cameras, as some returns appear to be sent back missing items - again based on reviews I've read off of EBAY, as nothing negative can be written on EBAY.  I'm fine not getting my money back nor my camera, but these buyers should be banned completely from EBAY.  

[fern*wood]

That's really unfortunate.  I handle returns very carefully.  The choices can be confusing, but never even let your mouse hover over refund if you want your item back.  Some people are honest and would still send it back, but you can't ever count on that and I know of little you can do if you already refunded.   I believe the refund verbiage may even tell the buyer you received a refund and no need to return.

Having a no return policy doesn't matter if they filed a not as described return.  Those only refer to remorse returns.   I don't concern myself with the feedback.  I give everyone good feedback for paying. 

[allen1853]

If they have a presence on Google you can do a Google review. You have to give them at least one star, zero is not an option, but then let the WORLD (not just people on eBay) know they are dishonest scammers. Ebay does nothing about these crooks. Do what you can outside eBay. And NEVER refund before receiving item back. NEVER leave feedback for scammers. Reply to any feedback they leave you with details of the scam and their crooked business practices. Good luck going forward. Ebay's business model (buyer scammers are always right) makes us learn some expensive lessons. 

[coolections]

Sorry that happened to you. There is a seller protection for scams like this in place. On Ebay you need to always wait until a buyer files an INAD case. It is the only way to protect yourself on line as you have to have proof (through the Ebay mechanism), that the buyer returns the item. About the only thing you can do is hope the buyer returns your camera. If he doesn't you need to file a police report, a postal fraud report, and possibly take the buyer to small claim court.

[kensgiftshop]

Sorry that happened, but if you issued the refund before it was returned, it's not the buyers fault.

[jeffpierre]

Hi Allen, 

Yep, they have one star reviews from me now on Google, Yelp, and their Facebook page.  I certainly made a mistake in picking the refund incorrectly as I was rushing to get the process done, but when a return shipping label is issued, by myself and EBAY, and no replies, you no something is up - they should be Banned - EBAY are you listening?  

[coolections]

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@jeffpierre wrote:

EBAY are you listening?  

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Ebay does not listen here. If you truly want to get the buyer banned, you need to report the buyer from your item sold page so Ebay can put a mark on his record.

[jeffpierre]

No, 

Not his fault that I foolishly issued refund to quickly.  But is it his fault not to ship it back after prepaid return labels were sent by me, and then by EBAY.  Is it right to not reply to any ebay messages asking where the return is? 

[jeffpierre]

Yep, blocked, reported and called it in

[2....1....0....sold!]

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@jeffpierre wrote:

 I put a beautiful Nikon F3HP with a lens up for auction, and the auction winner ended up being a camera shop in brooklyn NY. 

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LOL!

Sounds like the opening line of a comedy routine!

15 years without being scammed? Wow! That is incredible...these boards are filled with people scammed on their very first listing.

Best of luck on another 15 year scam free run...

PS. Your camera and the money; yeah, about that, they're gone...but I suspect you already knew that.

[farmalljr]

I think lots of the rules should change and bring more fairness to the whole selling/buying experince here. But what I think doesn't matter. The ONLY thing that matters are, there are rules. Like it or not, we are to follow them. If you don't like the terms, don't sell/buy here. It's that simple. 

You don't have the opportunity to approve your buyers here.  eBay is supposed to be taking care of that, and in reality, they don't kick off scammers and bad buyers. We have to accept that and live with it, if we want to sell here. There are always other platforms and other avenues to sell, it's our choice to stay or leave. 

Adding this buyer to your blocked list will help you avoid potential future issues with them. Nothing else you can do. Being mad about it is not going to fix anything. Complaining "eBay oughtta!" isn't going to do anything either. 

[kensgiftshop]

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@jeffpierre wrote:

Hi Allen, 

Yep, they have one star reviews from me now on Google, Yelp, and their Facebook page.  I certainly made a mistake in picking the refund incorrectly as I was rushing to get the process done, but when a return shipping label is issued, by myself and EBAY, and no replies, you no something is up - they should be Banned - EBAY are you listening?  

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If you issued the refund, the case was closed and there was no shipping label provided.

[jeffpierre]

I contacted EBAY, and they reissued a shipping label, directly to the buyer.