Buyer gave false INAD, returned item damaged, and gave me bad feedback to retaliate for calling him

[rocky-vintage]

I had a buyer return an item claiming it was not as described. My listing stated the garment had 2 holes on the chest underneath the embroidery , 9 out of 18 photos showed those holes from various angles. I'm no stranger to returns and as long as the reason is legitimate I've had no reason to try and appeal . I

was under the impression being a good seller means being transparent about item condition, flaws, photos, etc., and to describe the item to the best of my abilities. Anyways, my return shows up and the item has stains that I know for a fact were not present when I shipped it originally. I report the buyer, because at this point it just seems like he's trying to take advantage of me and the ebay system. I contact customer support and speak with a representative who hears me out and says the only way I can deduct from the total of the refund in this scenario is to come to a resolution through PayPal with the buyer outside of the platform, or to let the time i have to refund expire (and most likely hurt my seller metrics) so that I can attempt an appeal. I figured fighting it wasn't in my best interest and begrudgingly sent a refund. I then sent the buyer photos of the original listing side by side with the new photos of the return that I had taken to document the new stains he sent it back with. He retaliated by giving me negative feedback that was really disingenuous basically to retaliate for me bringing it to his attention. I try and get a feedback appeal and explain that the buyer falsely chose INAD for a return, the flaws were documented accurately (they can literally check the original pictures/ description in the listing vs the new pictures I sent.) The buyers feedback says I camouflaged the stains with my lights (meanwhile the description says "has numerous tiny stains" and their are so many that I couldn't possibly upload a picture for all of them and they are the kind that don't show up well on camera anyways unless you zoom in enough to see the molecules in the shirt (but they are there and they were documented.) His main gripe was with the holes in the shirt because he didn't think they were ask big as they were. Like I said 9/18 pictures show the holes, at some point isn't it the buyers job to do some due diligence and ask for clarification or exact specifics if he's really that concerned? My feedback appeal was rejected with no reason given, the buyer chose INAD so I covered shipping cost, I report him for whatever good that does, the ebay representative basically says I have to come to an agreement with that goober (buyer) if I want any money back or put myself in a position to have my metrics effected on the hopes a refund appeal works, then when I present the side by side pictures to the buyer of the new (most prominent stain on the whole shirt) he added to the garment, he gives negative feedback to retaliate. I feel like I used every avenue/tool I had at my disposal to get the tiniest bit of help in the situation and both ebay and the buyer metaphorically spit in my face. I guess my question is, what could I have possibly done better and why does it feel like seller protections are an ABSOLUTE joke no matter what information you provide or how upfront you are. At what point is it the buyers fault? At what point does he/she have some kind of repercussions? And at what point does ebay stop treating me like the villain when I've done everything (in my opinion) to be upfront about what happened? I feel like I should preface that I have the same exact phone and lights that I used in the original listing as I did when I sent pictures to document the stains. Idk, I'm probably just venting at this point because that's all I have now, not protection from ebay, nor protection from fraudulent claims, just my words. And lastly, I know the stains the buyer added aren't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, but what is a big deal is that I feel like I exhausted every possible way to protect myself and still got shafted. 

 

 

 

  

[krazzykats]

I honestly cannot see a difference in any of the circles on your pictures before/after.

I see a stained shirt with lots of holes, including what lots like a cigarette burn hole below the USA logo, so what am I missing?  It's the same shirt, same condition imho.

Yes, you can tell your buyer to return for a refund, or you can refund and let them keep the shirt.

ᓚᘏᗢ

[powell-collectibles]

Legitimate return. Regardless, I’m not sure what arguing with the buyer gets you. Just move on.

[fbusoni]

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@rocky-vintage wrote:

I guess my question is, what could I have possibly done better and why does it feel like seller protections are an ABSOLUTE joke no matter what information you provide or how upfront you are. 

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@rocky-vintage 

Very sorry that this happened to you.

To my mind, your experience testifies to the danger (among others) of selling items that appeal to the 15-35 year old male demographic, which -- judging by the thousands of posts I have read on these seller boards and read about in the news over the last 50 years -- seems to include a greater preponderance of thieves and lowlifes than all other consumer groups combined.  (I am not including here "thieves and lowlifes" as a discrete consumer group.) 

For the first 15 years or so of selling on eBay I focused on a single category (media).  When I decided to branch out into other categories, I approached the matter very strategically.  I decided in the end to sell old things (no clothing however) in boring categories that were of interest mostly to older people with education and money -- people who were old fashioned like me, who were more likely than not   to have a moral compass, to read feedback when making a purchasing decision, to be careful shoppers and READ descriptions and examine photos carefully***, to consider quality over price, and to be honest.  

Of course, all sellers are dealing with the general public, which one can compare to a vast Petri dish, and my approach above as a result has not been 100% foolproof:  last week, for I think the second time in 26 years of selling here, I received an INAD from a buyer who returned to me a worn and stained copy of a brand new book that I had sold her.  I filed a case and uploaded photos of what she sent; within 10 minutes eBay released my funds, yet made the inane decision to give her a refund for the copy of the book I sent her and which she kept -- proof, as if any is needed, that photos are NOT evidence for eBay and will do nothing to prevent fraud.   I'm assuming that I was made whole because I have been selling here for a quarter of a century, my metrics are perfect, and my items are all TRS-plus.

(I got a follow-up survey from eBay asking me to rate the return experience.  I told eBay that they were idiots, in the clinical sense.) 

In your case, the only recourse really is to respond to the buyer's feedback, and I thought that you did a good job of expressing frustration and calling out the maggot who purchased from you... without dishonoring yourself in any way.  

I suspect that to the extent that any buyers bother reading your feedback, they will see your reply and not penalize you, as its clear that you were telling the truth (and prospective buyers can visit your listing to see that -- you gave the jersey an "acceptable" rating.)

I have no experience selling clothing, but from what I gather there seems to be great room for buyer failure to read descriptions carefully.   Your buyer saw a picture of a jersey he liked and probably bought it without reading any of your text in the description.

*** True story.  Some years ago I listed an expensive Limoges plate, describing it as flawless.  Buyer contacted me after receiving it; she politely told me that there was a small chip, which, if I looked at my own photos carefully, I could see.   She was right.  I promptly send her a complete refund, and went to the eye doctor for a new set of reading glasses.

[luckythewinner]

I was under the impression being a good seller means being transparent about item condition, flaws, photos, etc., and to describe the item to the best of my abilities.

Doing your best does not mean every transaction will go perfectly.

I figured fighting it wasn't in my best interest and begrudgingly sent a refund

So you decided it was not worth fighting it ...

I then sent the buyer photos of the original listing side by side with the new photos of the return that I had taken to document the new stains he sent it back with

... and then you ignored that decision and felt compelled to unnecessarily antagonize the buyer after the transaction was resolved in order to "prove" to the buyer that you were "right" and he was "wrong".

I'm probably just venting at this point because that's all I have now, not protection from ebay, nor protection from fraudulent claims, just my words

You are definitely just venting. There is a risk of fraud with every eBay transaction. That has been true since 2008 when eBay introduced the Money Back Guarantee for buyers.

I feel like I used every avenue/tool I had at my disposal to get the tiniest bit of help in the situation and both ebay and the buyer metaphorically spit in my face

It is pointless to get emotionally involved with a stranger over an online transaction. Your intellect made the decision to let it go, but your emotions just couldn't let it go.

[pickapaper]

@rocky-vintage 

I read the description and you did describe the condition as acceptable, however when I looked at all of your photos, most of them looked like duplicates of each other.  I did not see any closeups of the stains so couldn't really determine where the stains were or what they looked like.  Your pictures of the large hole were okay but if there were other holes, I couldn't see them.   Quite frankly, the way the shirt is laid out, it looks like a nice shirt and it appears the buyer bought the shirt without reading the description to see that it had numerous issues and was only "acceptable".    (And that's pretty good money for a shirt with holes and stains; not saying it isn't worth it, I don't know.)

Just a suggestion, when you posted here, you included photos with some of the issues circled.  Since you know how to do that, why not do it when you list an item with issues, to point out the issues to buyers?

[pls-consignments]

Unfortunately, handling returns are part of the costs of doing business, regardless of whether we feel they are legitimate or not. As much as we (sellers) do our best to protect ourselves from this kind of shrink, eBay's policies are designed to protect buyers in order to maintain market share. Therefore, you need to weigh your efforts against the risks to your seller reputation and pick your battles carefully.